Given that we’re all supposed to use contactless payment wherever possible now, AIBU to think it’s a bit shit to have minimum spend amounts?

[AngeloMysterioso]

I try to use small and independent local businesses wherever possible but I’m getting quite tired of having to meet (sometimes quite high) minimum spend amounts.

Example- lovely local greengrocer, went in for a piece of ginger, £2.40. Minimum spend- £5. I put it back and went to M&S where the same sized bit of ginger was half the price and that was all I had to pay.

This is particularly annoying given that at the moment everyone is encouraged to use contactless or card payments as it is more hygienic than cash. I know there is a fee applied to card payments but surely these independent businesses are going to drive away customers if they insist on passing it on? I really like the greengrocers but I’m not going to waste money on things I don’t need if I’m not getting £5 worth of stuff whenever I go in there- I’ll just go to the supermarket instead.

When he started insisting on a purchase before giving change, lots of people would find the cheapest thing they possibly could (a single sweet or Freddo or something), give him a £20 note and then take all of his change, which he had to keep going to the bank and replacing, at further cost to himself.

I fucking hated these smart arses🙄
I used my personal banks few times claiming it's for some ruffle or something 🙈

I really think that many people think business banking is like a basic lloyds account with no charges unless you pay international. With business account, I am pretty sure they charge for farting in a vicinity if the branch!

Small businesses can just get an sumup card reader (£20, there are other companies too) and the transaction fee is 1.69% or 2.5% for an online shop. There is no flat fee. So for that £2.40 piece of garlic, the transaction fee would be 4p, not as extortionate as everyone is saying here!

Given there is no flat fee with this type of transaction, then I think it is silly to have a minimum spend.

Card readers have moved on a lot in the last ten years ago maybe this shop has a more expensive tariff and had not shopped around recently.

Card readers have moved on a lot in the last ten years ago maybe this shop has a more expensive tariff and had not shopped around recently.

Many don't because it can get confusing. I guess like people with a leccy or gas. If I remember correctly paypal was getting into the market few years back as with card readers and set ups. I don't even know how that went for them.

I vote with my feet.
I don't want to carry cash any more, the last time I fancied a Chinese takeaway we got there and it was cash only, so we shrugged, left and walked to the one that takes cards.
I often shop for my mum and she insists on giving me cash. It annoys the hell out of me because I have to find time to bank it, during covid times banks operate stupid hours so it's massively inconvenient. Cash just isn't convenient.

@whatthejiggeries

I thought they'd changed the rules and it was now illegal to penalise use with a card ?

Yes, that’s probably what’s caused OP’s issue.

Small shops often used to have a 50p charge for card payments under £5. Now that’s illegal, so they just ban card payments under £5.

Cash just isn't convenient.

I have to disagree with that. Most places have number of free cashpoints, it's not like few notes makes wallet too heavy to carry. I think going full cashless is as bad as full cash. There is a great balance with no extra hassle involved when taking it out usually. Putting it in may be different but there is lots of deposit points/machines as well.

Our local toll bridge charges 40p per car. Last year they moved to contactless payment plus "chuck cash in bucket" method for those without a card. It seems to work. It always used to be a pain remembering to have cash, so the new system is very handy.

@Sillyduckseverywhere

I vote with my feet. I don't want to carry cash any more, the last time I fancied a Chinese takeaway we got there and it was cash only, so we shrugged, left and walked to the one that takes cards. I often shop for my mum and she insists on giving me cash. It annoys the hell out of me because I have to find time to bank it, during covid times banks operate stupid hours so it's massively inconvenient. Cash just isn't convenient.

It would be really convenient to use the cash your mum gave you rather than going to inconvenience to bank it!

I couldn’t agree with you more OP, I walked out of a shop last week for the same reason (not ginger though!). I don’t even carry a bag or purse, I pay using my smart watch. Haven’t used cash in years, it costs so little for retailers to take cards, Zettle for example charge 1.75%, that would have cost 4p on that ginger, if 4p is their profit margin, they have a bigger problem than card fees!

@Twinkie01

Visa and MasterCard don't allow retailers to set a minimum spend there are no such rules with Amex. You can report the retailer to visa or MasterCard and they can withdraw the ability for that retailer to use their cards for transactions.

Visa & MasterCard merchant rules only apply if you are using their merchant card processing services. Most small businesses use different card readers and merchanting services that come from the readers provider.

e.g. I have a SumUp reader with its lowest transaction rate. But that lowest rate comes with a delay in processing payments.
I can take Visa & MasterCard but I’m not using their services, I could go for a minimum, but I buy and sell random things - if it’s not going to give me enough margin then I’m not going to be selling that item (this is not my living)

I’m using SumUps most basic services, others may use different service levels and different per transaction or monthly subscription services.
My card reader is only the most basic, I have to tie it to my phone and enter the sale via an app.

My friends shop uses a card reader with a higher transaction rate, but they normally have a higher ratio of cash to card sales, and they want the money released as soon as possible to reinvest or to pay other traders using their shop and they also use other services from the merchanting for the accounting, have multiple card readers with the most basic linked to a tablet computer up to a higher grade standalone card reader that runs by itself and can print receipts etc
Currently they are looking at other services as with less cash transactions (and taking the hit of no minimum) it could be more viable to move to a monthly fee with a lower transaction rate - as long as the proportion of card payments stays high.

Sounds complicated
cardmachine.co.uk/credit-card-charges-for-small-business/

The problem is that it's not just 4p, is it. It's 4 p there, 7p next, 2p, next and before you know it it's a tenner.

Put 4p aside 15x a day for a month, 20x on saturday. Then say "it's just 4p".

I voted with my feet last week as ‘ the card machine isn’t working ‘ again . I pay everything with a credit card and pay In full each month .
This super pissed me off and he told me to get cash over the road . It was a fast food franchaise and out of say 10 times I’ve been around 8 times it isn’t working and that’s not an exaggeration. I don’t know what they’re playing at but they lost out on a customer buying a bucket of chicken and chips for 6 hungry teenagers . I won’t get cash out on a credit card
I honestly think they are playing some sort of system as I’ve worked with card machines over the years and NEVER have I come across a card machine that doesn’t work 3/4’s of the time and they always have customers so not like they’re struggling for business

Small businesses can just get an sumup card reader (£20, there are other companies too) and the transaction fee is 1.69% or 2.5% for an online shop. There is no flat fee. So for that £2.40 piece of garlic, the transaction fee would be 4p, not as extortionate as everyone is saying here!

You're correct - it's not extortionate when you look at it as a "per transaction" amount - but you have to look at the bigger picture.

If a small shop has 50 transactions per day that average £5 each - that's a roughly 8.5p charge per transaction. So about £4 per day.

But Saturdays and Sundays are really busy for this shop, so maybe they do 100 transactions - so that's £8 per day. So you're looking at costs of £36 a week - £150 per month. And that's not including the transaction costs for every single other card payment they take.

That £150 has to be made up somewhere - so maybe they're forced to reduce their opening hours, cut staffing costs or raise their prices to cover it.

Customers then don't want to pay the increased costs - or maybe they can't shop there anymore because they now close on Mondays to try and recoup their costs - and soon the business folds.

Little bits of spending here and there can soon add up to a really significant amount.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-53444700

I don't carry cash. I live rurally, no cashpoints, I think there might be one in the local Sainsburys. The only time I have cash is when the dcs have been given some for their birthdays from aged relations, they give it to me as they literally don't use it - I transfer money into their bank accounts.

Visa & MasterCard merchant rules only apply if you are using their merchant card processing services. Most small businesses use different card readers and merchanting services that come from the readers provider.

e.g. I have a SumUp reader with its lowest transaction rate. But that lowest rate comes with a delay in processing payments.I can take Visa & MasterCard but I’m not using their services, I could go for a minimum.

VISA: A Merchant must not establish a minimum or maximum Transaction amount as a condition for honoring a Visa Card or Visa Electron Card.
MASTERCARD: A Merchant must not require, or indicate that it requires, a minimum or maximum Transaction amount to accept a valid and properly presented Mastercard or Maestro Card.

Most (all?) card reader companies are similarly bound to the Card Scheme rules of any card network they are designed to accept. If your card reader provider discovers that a business has been breaking these rules it runs the risk of being fined or suspended by their service provider.

SumUp: By accepting these terms you also agree to the network rules (“Network Rules”) as set forth by the credit card organizations including, but not limited to Visa, Mastercard and American Express.

I just carry a £10 note for anything under £5 from a small business or if there is a minimum spend.

I work in a petrol station and we fairly regularly have teenagers come in and buy just a 25p Freddo and pay using their phone. Our margins are so tight that we'd lose less money if they actually just walked out without paying for it

[quote Nohomemadecandles]@AngeloMysterioso it's about £3 a kilo in mine! I'll post you a knob a month [/quote]
But what about the ginger?

Just go back to using cash if it suits you, OP. I stopped paying by card months ago. We have plenty of free cashpoints in my town, I withdraw money once a week and use that in shops.

@Slippy78

I work in a petrol station and we fairly regularly have teenagers come in and buy just a 25p Freddo and pay using their phone. Our margins are so tight that we'd lose less money if they actually just walked out without paying for it

Yes, my dd does that. If your anything like our local petrol station, the huge margins you make on booze and food must help. It's vastly expensive

@AngeloMysterioso

In my town every other shop has a sign (given to them by the local council) suggesting contactless payments.

Obviously I’m glad to have the option of going to Sainsbury’s or wherever but I want to support local businesses as much as possible, but not if it involves wasting money!

How is it wasting money?

Some businesses prefer cash, usually small local ones. Want to buy there? I use cash.

I even use cash in the supermarket because I don't want to encourage the cashless society.

I love the cashless society.

Posters saying if someone gives them cash, they have to bank it

Is there nowhere you can pay in cash? I realise it depends what part of the country you live in.