I miss the old R4 Woman's Hour. I don't tune in anymore.

[flashbac]

I don't/can't listen to Woman's Hour anymore. It's lost its magic. I miss having it in the background and listening to interesting points of discussion. Now I find it gets on my nerves. It's crap.

The soporific pace & dull topics had put me off for years. Maybe I'll try to listen again if all that has changed!

I was angered by that tweet from Anita Rani too. Extremely patronising, and not to mention tone deaf at the moment with the Maya Forstater verdict and the Jess de Wahl situation at the RA.

If WH can't accurately define a woman and engage in any meaningful discussion about the biggest issues currently facing women today - ie the conflict between gender identity and sex based rights then why would I bother listening? There's being respectful to other viewpoints and then there's centering them at the expense of meaningful discussion about issues that directly affect biological women.

It's perfectly valid to point out to WH that some women find it a bit offensive that they (fawningly) promoted Paris Lees's book 'What it feels like for a girl'? when Paris Lees might identify as a woman but Paris Lees has definitely never been a girl. And yet they refuse to engage with the important work being done by Maya Forstater, Sex Matters, Fair Play for Women or even Jess De Wahls - the artist at the centre of the de-platforming storm by the Royal Academy. Whether WH agree with these individuals/ groups or not they should have the courage to actually engage with them. So Rani's tweet was rudely dismissive of what large numbers of women are telling her they think.

There's just so much cognitive dissonance - for example discussions about VAWG and yet bowing and scraping at the altar of gender identity - an ideology that directly impacts on how women and girls seeking safety and treatment from violence are able to be helped.

If WH don't have the Big Swinging Ovaries to state that they are a programme for women then what's the point? Just call it 'Current Affairs Hour' and be done with it.

Quite honestly it had never occurred to me until that moment that anyone in England could claim to be interested in politics and yet not listen to 'Today', every day.

We abandoned Today entirely in our house as we could no longer bear the stress of it every morning. Balance was out of the window and we were living enough in our daily lives with the constant round and round of politics without starting the day with it. So we have both gone from news junkies who had listened to Today since our student days to total non-listeners, and feel much the better for it. And we have both been in roles before in which we were so connected to this stuff that we were sometimes involved in negotiating with the producers on bagging spots for the people we worked with.

I haven't listened to the new Woman's Hour. Jenni Murray was my surrogate feminist compassionate and intelligent mum. I haven't heard the new presenters but I feel I'm too old to start again. It was comfort listening (even if the comfort was in hearing debate on uncomfortable issues but knowing I could depend on the presenters) and now it won't be. That's my fault and not theirs, as they are untested. My only material reason for being wary was the comment from Emma Barnett on wanting the programme to be more inclusive - I am a bit sick of women seeking to be more inclusive while so much of the world continues to exclude them.

Quite honestly it had never occurred to me until that moment that anyone in England could claim to be interested in politics and yet not listen to 'Today', every day.

We abandoned Today entirely in our house as we could no longer bear the stress of it every morning. Balance was out of the window and we were living enough in our daily lives with the constant round and round of politics without starting the day with it.

The specific point about Politics Students is a good one, though. The Today programme is essential listening in Westminster and for lobbyists. My Politics Professors referenced it constantly. I can’t believe it’s no longer mentioned on Politics courses.

The specific point about Politics Students is a good one, though. The Today programme is essential listening in Westminster and for lobbyists. My Politics Professors referenced it constantly. I can’t believe it’s no longer mentioned on Politics courses.

But we ARE Westminster and we have abandoned it. We're not the only ones I know who just couldn't put ourselves through it. Fair enough for politics students to be using it as part of their learning but now I would say there's a lot more about there that is interesting/useful - podcasts, Substacks, etc. It had got to the point of offering no insight or education. The traditional use of the Today programme to break news has also hugely diminished now we have Twitter and other instant media.

I can’t believe it’s no longer mentioned on Politics courses

It’s because it’s become irrelevant. If addicts with professional reasons for listening to it like @StiffyByng and me have given up on it, it’s beyond hope.

Agree with this. Jenny and Jane were so fantastic- funny, warm and insightful. The new lot really aren't and I agree I can't get on board with Emma's style.

Well the students should be the last ones left being made to do the basics. In any subject.

I know DS still listens (not live, though, and he skips through) but he’s early career and keen and all that stuff still. As it should be. They need some listeners or it will just be the press officers or journalists listening!

Do we think radio is actually going to die and melt entirely into podcasting?

I miss it so much - felt a profound sense of loss when Jenni Murray and then Jane Garvey left but was prepared to give Emma Barnett the benefit of the doubt. Her style is so abrasive though and I cannot stand the way she tries to turn everything into an argument. I have unsubscribed on BBCSounds.

I listen to Fortunately and Newscast now to try and fill the 10am void but I will always feel sad about what became of Woman's Hour. Like previous posters it was a fixture in my life from listening as a child when my mum had it on in the background - and later when I had small children became a comforting daily ritual.

I still miss Eddie Mair on PM too!

Such a shame. They'll see people switching off and say "see, we no longer need content just for women! Equality achieved!"

I still miss Eddie Mair on PM too!

I know. I did try to follow him at first but no, that new format was very commercial radio.

@CardinalLolzy

Such a shame. They'll see people switching off and say "see, we no longer need content just for women! Equality achieved!"

It’ll have to be podcasting and it will have to be word of mouth. Women’s issues are fast being forced back to underground organisation, almost.

I still want radio to survive, though.

@RickiTarr

I still miss Eddie Mair on PM too!

I know. I did try to follow him at first but no, that new format was very commercial radio.

Oh God, me too. His series of interviews with Steve Hewlett was the most sensitive, moving radio ever.

With the presenters I do suspect there's an element of we longer-term listeners being a bit Luddite, and not liking New Things. Who else remembers the absolute uproar when the schedule was changed in the 90s? Mixing it up to appeal to new listeners has to be part of the approach. Dramatic changes do have a habit of settling down and we may see something similar with WH.

BUT the Today programme has eaten itself, no question.

@CardinalLolzy

Such a shame. They'll see people switching off and say "see, we no longer need content just for women! Equality achieved!"

Ugh! Yes, this.... sadly

I love Emma Barnett but I don't think she's the right fit for WH

I stopped listening a while ago (I found Jane Garvery quite sneering towards some people she interviewed) but I gave it a go when EB joined.

It's not working for me at all so I'm listening to Times radio instead

I've gone off Anita Rani since she fawned all over Paris Lees.

It's not Woman's Hour any more, it's an hour for basically anyone and no-one.

Some people are a programme and really no-one can replace them. Could this be the case with Jenni Murray?

And I absolutely agree re Today. Listened to it every day for about 30 years but can't listen now.

Another vote for the Fortunately podcast for those missing Jane Garvey.

I've forgotten to miss Eddie Mair! As a pp said - Evan Davis is really beginning to carve out his own style on PM. I know it's the producers / editors / researchers who perhaps control the content - but it really lights up when they feature a topic in which he has some personal or long-standing professional interest. And often, particularly on subjects that centre women, I almost gasp in amazement at the slant taken, and feel the broadcast would have been very different with another presenter. So, amidst all the R4 dross, thumbs up for that man.

I'm starting to warm to emma barnett but anita rani is too soft spoken and nicey nicey for my liking

Yes ... I'm not keen on all AR's jollying us on. I'm not her mate.

Agree. I used to really like the style of it before. It doesn't have any warmth anymore.

Evan Davis is great. No wool over his eyes. Tall lanky bloke, funny how he doesn't get any grief eh.

I do miss Eddie Mair he was fab