To be genuinely confused..

[Namechangefun]

First off, I think representation hugely matters and I want to be as kind as possible to every person.

Does anyone else feel like they don’t know where to stand on trans issues like sharing bathrooms etc? Vote YABU for ‘I’m very clear in my view’ and YANBU on ‘TBH I don’t know’

On one hand, I think trans people should be given all of the respect and we should acknowledge their gender as they present. Someone shouldn’t be hated for their gender presentation or sexuality etc.

On the other hand, I can see the point of women who don’t want their gender identity and the challenges of being born biologically female (xx chromosome) erased. Also survivors of domestic abuse etc.

How do you reconcile the two?

If you want info I suggest heading over to the feminist board chat

YABU to use this topic for a vote, that’s not its purpose. I haven’t voted.

Fair enough @Iris27will have a look there. I kind of assume (perhaps unfairly) a biased view there (assuming firmly in the camp of erasure of female identity) rather than a broad spectrum view/opinions

Simple a 3rd space ie male(xy) female (xx) and trans.
This is the only reasonable way forward but it's not what they want as it doesn't validate their identity.
There is so much more I could say about this but would probably end up with a strike

That should say a 3rd space so 1 male(xy) 1 female (xx) and a 3rd trans space

I struggle with this too, OP. I don't want any individual trans people to suffer unnecessarily, and my natural inclination is to be inclusive and to respect people's differences. However, I don't actually believe that trans women are women, because I define that word in terms of biological sex - the concept of gender means nothing to me. And I do believe that women should have the right to single sex spaces.

It is not possible for everyone to have exactly what they want in this situation. Trans women cannot be allowed full access to women's spaces without biological women's rights being eroded to some extent. I don't see how it's possible to reconcile the two.

I do agree that a third space seems like the best compromise, but I understand that some trans people feel that isn't enough.

Thanks @AlexaShutUp glad to hear I’m not the only one who is genuinely unsure here. It’s a complex issue for sure!

Try not to think for you, but for the most vulnerable in society.

Do you want brutalised women escaping DV to be forced into a space with natal-men?

Do you want female prisoners to be forced to live with natal men with penis? With natal men convicted of rape?? Who go on to sexually adult female prisoners?! This has already happened in the U.K.

Think of religious women who cannot use spaces such as changing rooms or pools of the changing rooms contain natal men.

Do you want a woman who has requested a female healthcare professional to be forced to have a natal man conduct an internal exam (but it’s ok cos they say then feel like a woman)?

Natal men who have gone through male puberty competing against women in sports? Do you want a 16 year old boy competing against your 16 year old girl in contact sports… because he feels like a girl?!

Natal men who have had the benefits of male socialisation and have lived most of their adult lives as men… taking women in business awards?

Do you want to have a reasonable discussion on sex based rights? Or do you think it’s right to shout “transphobe” “literal violence” “no debate” and yet to threaten rape and violence on women who want to speak out?

Do you want teenagers to be given drugs which cause sterilisation without appropriate therapy and exploratory care?

There is so so so SO much wrong with the trans rights movement it’s untrue. And the losers are the most vulnerable.

Sex matters.

Trans people should be free to live as they want and be free from discrimination at work etc but they should NOT have the rights to women’s only spaces.

Oh, and do you want to know if there is a -5 year old boy who is ‘identifying as a girl’ sharing the sleeping accommodation on your 15 year olds girl guild camo? Or not?

At the moment… you won’t know.

I understand some doubt in the sense that I do not like the thought of people with gender dysphoria - whom I think are a small number but are as important as anyone else - feeling like they have nowhere they belong. However. Is the answer to that, natal women having no place they can feel safe? So I am clear in my view - sex segregated spaces exist to protect biological women. I am sorry for the suffering of trans women but I can’t pretend that I don’t feel frightened by biological males in intimate spaces with me, however they present.