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AIBU?

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Original poster

How does Housing benefit work?

55 replies

grandmashotdoodlebugs · 19/06/2021 21:33

I may be unreasonable for not knowing ! So I am sorry if I am...

So my question is a single man who is on benefits. What and how is housing benefit paid that would enable him to live in a one bedroom accommodation costing a monthly rent of £750?

I need a lesson and if I come across as judgmental then yes, I am being unreasonable.

OP posts:
Tealightsandd · 19/06/2021 22:51

He’ll then get a basic figure of a little over £100 a week

If he's on housing benefit, which is linked to legacy benefits (JSA, ESA etc) it will be less. About £75 a week for unemployment benefit.

And he’ll not need to pay council tax.

Not true. It's depends where he lives. Some local authorities only give a discount. Council tax benefit was abolished some years ago.

Original poster
grandmashotdoodlebugs · 19/06/2021 22:51

@Nats1984

Put in a postcode for where he lives . Get the LHA for that area. It will tell you whether he’s getting a housing entitlement coving all or nearly all the rent. He’ll then get a basic figure of a little over £100 a week for his food and other essentials. He can earn a small amount without affecting the benefit , after that they take 60p or something from every pound so that part time work is still worth taking. So assuming he’s entitled to the full £750 rent Plus 420 personal allowance And he’ll not need to pay council tax either. £1170. The personal allowance remains constant , the housing allowance is a calculated at the cost set my his landlord but capped at the LHA. So if he rented a room in a mates house for £300 a month his UC would be £420 PA £300 HA Total benefit £720
Thankyou - this is a really useful lesson

I don't want to give too much away as I will out myself but I think this paints a picture of living off less than £100 a week... when water bills, mobile phone bills and food & travel costs get factored in, no wonder he despises me for the £8.40 forcibly removed from his benefit by CMS....

OP posts:
Lougle · 19/06/2021 22:54

Yes, if he's on benefits, then the actual amount he gets for 'living' is going to be about £75 per week. The rest will be rent.

Original poster
grandmashotdoodlebugs · 19/06/2021 22:55

He is living in a pretty posh place. SO if I can somehow get evidence of the rental cost (I'm thinking of searching out the advert from estate agents or finding the agents etc) there is a possibility it would be IMPOSSIBLE to live there if he were on benefits therefore he is definitely committing fraud.

CMS don't bother to investigate the frankly weird and pretty damn obvious so it is down to me to give them evidence.

OP posts:
Tealightsandd · 19/06/2021 23:24

@grandmashotdoodlebugs

He is living in a pretty posh place. SO if I can somehow get evidence of the rental cost (I'm thinking of searching out the advert from estate agents or finding the agents etc) there is a possibility it would be IMPOSSIBLE to live there if he were on benefits therefore he is definitely committing fraud.

CMS don't bother to investigate the frankly weird and pretty damn obvious so it is down to me to give them evidence.

People living in posh places get sick or lose their jobs. Even more so during a pandemic. It's not as if they can all 'just move'. Where to? Nimbys don't want new housing developments (see Amersham and Chesham election reports), 'locals' in cheaper areas don't want incomers...partly because if loads of people move somewhere cheap, house prices (rent and buy) go up and it's no longer cheap... It's also very difficult to move on benefits. Many people can't afford it. And aside from the costs of moving, they struggle to find a landlord who'll let to them, so they have to stay put.

In this instance I'm assuming he's staying in the area to be close to his dc?

I don't think you'll be able to find any 'proof'. He might have come to an arrangement with the landlord to pay less rent than was advertised.

He could be paying a reduced rent. Perhaps the landlord is a friend of a friend, or the place is in a state of disrepair (including hidden problems not always apparent from the outside).

Some landlords charge below market rents, perhsps to keep long term never missed a rent payment tenants rather than risking a void period.

Or he could have a guarantor. A family member or friend. Perhaps they're helping him top up his rent.

Every situation is different.

Tealightsandd · 19/06/2021 23:26

The advertised rent isn't necessarily the rent he's agreed with the landlord to pay.

Also, you might be able to find the advert but I don't know if you'd be able to get any information from the agent. I'm not sure but I think it could be a data breach, to tell you how much rent he's paying.

Tealightsandd · 19/06/2021 23:30

Also you mentioned he was in prison. It's possible he was placed in the flat by the local authority. It could be homeless temporary accommodation, which is often a lot more expensive than normal rents (another reason why more social housing is better for the taxpayer).

SmallGallery283 · 20/06/2021 13:07

If you are unemployed a person may have some or all of the below;

Debts
Loans
Pets
Children
Illness
Bills for living costs
Bills for food

SmallGallery283 · 20/06/2021 13:11

Pressed too soon

Each individual persons circumstances will be different

Personally, I think that money should be deducted for children, because it is the principle of paying for a dependant, as a parent.

Do they help in other ways like helping with childcare, birthdays, Xmas, (free) activities ?

It is not your guilt to bear

WiddlinDiddlin · 20/06/2021 17:09

It is also possible that he has massive rent arrears and will be evicted soon...

mumwon · 20/06/2021 17:17

this is the benefit calculator which might be helpful
benefits-calculator-2.turn2us.org.uk/

mumwon · 20/06/2021 17:23

re pp
There has been a long period where being in arrears doesn't mean being evicted for quite a long time due to are old friend covid - so it is quite possible he might be evicted but it will take along time
If he is an excon would probation service help him or the local council (temp accommodation as another pp said)
You will find this difficult to check -

Original poster
grandmashotdoodlebugs · 20/06/2021 21:28

Still appreciating the replies

He's not allowed to see DC. He doesn't willingly pay towards them, never has. The only time I've had maintenance was when he was on benefit and it was collected with 20% on top to him. He could of course just pay it. But he doesn't

He stopped benefit the same time this property was sold. Co incidence maybe.

He is now clear from
Probation service. It's not a halfway house, he's done that and moved to this property 40
miles from probation area. He is SOR and Visor so his chances of employment are greatly reduced.

There are no other children. He's an idiot if he got a pet but that wouldn't surprise me.

It's probable he had debt but after his incarceration I expect it got written off. It was a business loan and his business folded.

This is super helpful. If he has a car, a mobile phone, a pet all of these things are frankly unaffordable meaning he is earning something. He has no parents. His brothers disowned him. His ex accused him of stalking after he was released.

I have to prove it to CMS - they don't check records such as DVLA for themselves
Despite being sister Government bodies.

Plus I was with him for 18 years. So I know what a cun he is

OP posts:
Babyroobs · 20/06/2021 21:33

They cannot make a new claim for housing benefit, it would be Universal credit. If they are under 35 they would only receive the shared accommodation rate for their local area. If over 35 it would be the one bedroomed local housing allowance rate. This rate may not cover his full rent and he would be expected to make up the rest from his other benefits or may be able to get help from discretionary housing payment through his local council.

BusyLizzie61 · 21/06/2021 07:42

@grandmashotdoodlebugs

Still appreciating the replies

He's not allowed to see DC. He doesn't willingly pay towards them, never has. The only time I've had maintenance was when he was on benefit and it was collected with 20% on top to him. He could of course just pay it. But he doesn't

He stopped benefit the same time this property was sold. Co incidence maybe.

He is now clear from
Probation service. It's not a halfway house, he's done that and moved to this property 40
miles from probation area. He is SOR and Visor so his chances of employment are greatly reduced.

There are no other children. He's an idiot if he got a pet but that wouldn't surprise me.

It's probable he had debt but after his incarceration I expect it got written off. It was a business loan and his business folded.

This is super helpful. If he has a car, a mobile phone, a pet all of these things are frankly unaffordable meaning he is earning something. He has no parents. His brothers disowned him. His ex accused him of stalking after he was released.

I have to prove it to CMS - they don't check records such as DVLA for themselves
Despite being sister Government bodies.

Plus I was with him for 18 years. So I know what a cun he is

@grandmashotdoodlebugs

I understand you're feeling bitter regarding the child maintenance. But even if you show he's living beyond his means, he's no different to millions of people.

If he has a car, a mobile phone, a pet all of these things are frankly unaffordable meaning he is earning something. Do you not think that people on uc have mobiles, pets or cars?

If you pursue this, the possible outcome, if true, is you report to benefits and hmrc, he goes back to prison, you get zero! So beyond feeling great about that - is it worth it? Are you really that vindictive?

Unless his rent really is significantly more and he has no capital he could be living off - he could well have been syphoning money or investments presumably when with you for the 18 years - then I'd say the situation, though galling for you, isn't unusual.

roobicoobi · 21/06/2021 07:54

If he has a car, a mobile phone, a pet all of these things are frankly unaffordable meaning he is earning something.

Eh? You think benefit claimants don't have things?

OP I think you are barking up the wrong tree. Wasting your time. You either prove he is earning or you don't. What he 'has' is irrelevant in context.

Original poster
grandmashotdoodlebugs · 21/06/2021 17:13

@BusyLizzie61 @roobicoobi

This is where it seems you don't understand CMS (maybe you do) but the onus is on me to prove he is earning an income and only then will they maybe investigate him to collect 16% of it for his children. I couldn't give a rats arse if he has a car (I know he has a phone as I heard him in court the other day on it).

On the contrary, I'm not bitter and I'm trying to act positively to force change not just for my children but thousands of others stuck in this terrible system.

OP posts:
Tealightsandd · 21/06/2021 17:23

If he's on the sex offenders register and recently released from jail, it's very likely he's been housed by the local authority. They have to for dangerous offenders, so that they can keep tabs on them.

Temporary accommodation is often a private rental (at higher rent than market prices).

It's the cruel irony actually. We have a system where a vulnerable victim could end up homeless, through trauma or lack of money etc, but the perpetrator gets housed. Understandably the authorities have to know where dangerous offenders are living. It's just a shame there isn't more help and housing for innocent non offending homeless too.

Hawkins001 · 21/06/2021 17:26

[quote grandmashotdoodlebugs]**@BusyLizzie61* @roobicoobi*

This is where it seems you don't understand CMS (maybe you do) but the onus is on me to prove he is earning an income and only then will they maybe investigate him to collect 16% of it for his children. I couldn't give a rats arse if he has a car (I know he has a phone as I heard him in court the other day on it).

On the contrary, I'm not bitter and I'm trying to act positively to force change not just for my children but thousands of others stuck in this terrible system. [/quote]
All the best op

Tealightsandd · 21/06/2021 17:31

If he's on benefits, can CMS deduct directly from his UC?

Or is he saying he's not claiming?
It's possible if it's homeless accommodation, the local authority is paying rent direct to the landlord.

I guess then he might not be claiming any other benefit but presumably he's living on something. Unfortunately it might be difficult to find out, particularly if it's something illegal.

I hope you manage to get something from him. I'm sorry I can't help with suggestions. Hopefully someone else might have some ideas or information?

TakeYourFinalPosition · 21/06/2021 17:49

@grandmashotdoodlebugs Saying that he can’t afford for the life he leads won’t count as “proof”. Neither will his rental ad.

You’d need to send proof that he’s employed. It won’t be easy. I wouldn’t overly expect the CMS to investigate even if you did, to be honest, they are pretty lax with this type of thing…

But I’d second that it’s very, very likely that he’s being supported because he’s on the SOR, and finding housing after that is very difficult, and the council has an obligation to help him so that he is traceable. It may well be that he’s getting discretionary payments to assist with the higher cost of that.

roobicoobi · 21/06/2021 17:55

This is where it seems you don't understand CMS (maybe you do) but the onus is on me to prove he is earning an income and only then will they maybe investigate him to collect 16% of it for his children.

Of course I understand. You have misread me. I said you need to prove he is earning or not. What he has is irrelevant because people on benefits also own cars etc.

Ponoka7 · 21/06/2021 18:03

There's a good chance that he's been housed under one of the systems for ex sex offenders, or a charity. They often house those on the SOR in nicer areas because they are in danger in rougher areas and the Police won't cope with the aftermath.

@BusyLizzie61, if someone on the SOR and Visor is still commiting any crime, I would hope that those around them get them put back in prison. Nothing vindictive about that. Those category of offenders are dangerous when the feelings of entitlement are still there.

Tealightsandd · 21/06/2021 18:36

There's a good chance that he's been housed under one of the systems for ex sex offenders, or a charity. They often house those on the SOR in nicer areas because they are in danger in rougher areas and the Police won't cope with the aftermath.

Yes this. Obviously it makes sense in some ways, but it's definitely a terribly unfair system. A system where victims and innocents are left without housing or dumped in the not nice areas. And, as is happening with OP, left struggling to provide for their children whilst the offender fails to contribute.

Definitely it's understandable you wanting to draw attention to this, OP. Whilst we can't leave dangerous offenders unhoused (and therefore easier to disappear), we absolutely should be providing more support and help to their victims and children.

BusyLizzie61 · 21/06/2021 20:05

[quote grandmashotdoodlebugs]**@BusyLizzie61* @roobicoobi*

This is where it seems you don't understand CMS (maybe you do) but the onus is on me to prove he is earning an income and only then will they maybe investigate him to collect 16% of it for his children. I couldn't give a rats arse if he has a car (I know he has a phone as I heard him in court the other day on it).

On the contrary, I'm not bitter and I'm trying to act positively to force change not just for my children but thousands of others stuck in this terrible system. [/quote]
I fully understand how the system works! In effect, unless you produce a contract, payslip or bank statement showing his regular payments in, above what's been declared, you really are getting more wound up than you need be. This isn't, in the nicest possible way, about others and changing the system. Atm you'd be better off filling in the government review questionnaire that's currently open. Not that I feel this will change much tbh as the tone seems to be about considering the income of the other household members and the receiving parent, but that's another discussion.

Does he have capital that could have been put aside before he was Imprisoned? Many business owners sell of their assets, to themselves, via a new company, for peanuts if they're going to be folding.... And it's legal. If he has the assets, then you'll be hard pushed to get any maintenance payments based on these. Unless he literally has 100000s.