To be so ashamed of my husband causing a scene?

[Vaterinadf]

It was so horrendous. We have 2 DC, 4 and 5 months. Yesterday we couldn't be arsed cooking and our 4 year old has never been to a restaraunt so I suggested we go to the local Pizza Express for dinner. 'D'H whinged about money. He is always complaining about money. Yes things are tight but we are able to stretch to the occasional treat as we have around £150 spare each month, but DH always gets in a tiff about it. I'm not regulary hounding him for treats, but the occasional "Ah shall we just get a takeaway for tonight?" will subject me to a half an hour long rant about how hard he works and about how I waste all his money. I work part-time but am on maternity leave. He reluctantly agreed to go.

As soon as we get in and are sat down, the whinging starts. "It's way too expensive, I want to go somewhere else, come on" (I was BFing 5mo at this point and didn't fancy traipsing around town for somewhere else to eat). I firmly said no, and that the DC will need to be in bed as soon as we get home and I'm not spending time wandering around.

Then he's rude and demanding to the waitress who was literally only a teenager. She asks if we're ready to take our order and we say yes. There's a technical issue with the order taking system she's using and she says "One second, sorry." and DH does a loud, extremely obvious tut that he clearly intended for the waitress to hear. The technical issue was sorted in literally seconds and was an absolute non-issue, the tut was just obnoxious and unnessecary. We then noticed her and another waitress kept glancing over our table so we'd clearly been marked as 'problem' customers. I've worked in hospitality previously and I've found myself risk-assessing tables before, so I felt awful. I did not want to be 'that' table.

I take baby to the bathroom to be changed and come back and the food is being served. DH again continues to just be rude and blunt. The waitress doesn't do anything wrong so he doesn't make complaints but I heard him say "No." (without a thank you) when the waitress asked if he'd like anything else. I thought that was rude. He whinges the whole time while we are eating about the food, the service, the decor etc. I didn't get to have a word in edgeways. The idea of a casual chat over a meal seemed to be lost on him. It was tense and I hated it. Even our 4YO could barely say a word over the monologue.

The waitress ends up dropping a fork on the floor when collecting our empty plates and is extremely apologetic and clearly nervous. DH again tuts and says that he's found the service disgraceful and it's horrendous we weren't offered a high chair for baby (Baby is 5 months ffs, the high chair at home is still boxed up so he was just looking for anything to complain about! It was quite obvious that baby was too young for a highchair so of course we weren't asked.). We ask for the bill and I tell him I think he's been absolutely disgusting and I'm ashamed of him and tell him to go and get the car. He then leaves but starts whinging and being sarcastic, saying crap like "Sorry for breathing." He's gone by the time we get the bill, it's a different waitress to the one who served us. I go up to the one who served us, apologise profusely and give her a £10 tip.

We argue about it when we get home and then he started the pity party about how he is depressed. I'm not saying he makes up his depression, but he only talks about it when I'm upset with him for something. "It's my depression that makes me like this!" and yet he never seeks help. I would never, ever say he just uses depression as an excuse but surely it is now his responsibility to seek help? He's a completely unpleasant human being and I dread him coming home from work every day. He is not the man I married, who I loved. He was kind and loving. I mean it, so kind. Everybody told me I'd got a goodun with him. I miss that man so much. He changed after first DC but has been absolutely insufferable since our recent baby. I don't know what to do. I enjoy being at home during the day with my 2 little ones, and then once DH comes through the door suddenly there is an unbearable tension.

I'm so sorry to hear about this...
I think people are wrong to say "he's horrible, just leave him". That's weak, cheap advice. Fathers can be deeply flawed, but their presence matters for a sense of cohesion in the family. When I heard my parents arguing as a child, I would be filled with dread at the thought of them separating. Only in very rare cases is it any form if a solution.

I wonder if you could try bringing up his mental health issues and need for help is n a context separate from a tense situation. In a moment when things are calm and relatively upbeat, say you want to talk about a specific issue. Go somewhere to talk about it, get someone to look after the kids. This might show him how important it is to you.

Or you could try expressing your feelings in a letter, and ask him to read it and have a long think about it before responding.

Alternatively, maybe speak to your GP about your concerns for his mental health? When I was struggling with irritability and anger after my mother's death, my dad spoke to the doctor and then came back to me when he'd found a route for counselling, and it made me much more willing to go.

Just some ideas. They may not work, but do try to keep things constructive and forward - focussed. Your children will thank you for sticking it out (I know that's a TOTALLY counter-cultural thing to say, and many many people deny it, but all the evidence points to the absence of a father and unstable home increasing the children's likelihood of mental health problems later in life)

@Hurr8cane84

Abuse ramps up when a woman is pregnant/just had a baby. He probably feels 1) you can't leave so he can treat you any way he likes and 2) annoyed that kids are taking your attention away from him. He's not depressed, he's a selfish gaslighting twat and your little boy is already showing signs of livng in an abusive home. If you stick around your son will learn that this is how women should be treated and will probably start behaving the same way to you. I mean why not since it works so well.

Honestly, LTB.

He sounds like an extremely grumpy and difficult person, but where in that did you see abuse?

Stone me there's a lot of apologists on this thread. So he didn't want to go? He's a grown man and he still went. Just proceeded to make an absolute arse of himself the entire time.

There is never a good enough excuse for behaving like this.

There is never a good enough excuse for prioritising your own needs ("I can't be doing with all that") over your family's (4 year old not being able to speak at a family dinner, partner mortified).

There is never a good enough excuse for shitting all over everybody else's feelings because you are "depressed" or "under pressure".

FUCK, AND I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH, THAT. Why is it the OPs' responsibility to sort this out? He's a grown man, he can have a proper conversation about what he's going to do about the situation. Fucks sake, the children come first, then the OP, then this miserable manchild who holds everyone else around him to ransom over his insufferable moods.

He either shapes up or ships out.

It is family money, he is not the Great Bestower Of Funds.

While th ser re is so many issues here that only the two of you can deal with together I have to say we lived tightly for years having to go without treats and it's all very well for people to say financial abuse etc but 150 spare for a month- I'd have worried about things like takeaway etc. and of course working the way he is he's going to be down, little money to show for his work and he's wrecked coming in (I remember feeling and being the same when we both worked ft) it's so hard with kids that age op, you're both tired and money is tight but it gets easier. I don't agree with ltb but you both need to have a sit down and he needs to know he's a full time misery and y ou u need some of the old him back

[quote Robin233]@KurtWilde
Well if they can't afford it.
Yes.
£150 a month spare isn't a lot.
Fast food is notoriously expensive.
It certainly isn't worry get into debt for.
Dh didn't want to go. There must be something they can do together as a family for fun that they both want to do.

[/quote]
I have less than £150 left at the end of a month and I can still afford a treat for my DC whether that be a takeaway or out for food or the cinema now it's open again. Life is about living not just existing.

@cauliflowerkorma

Your son sent you a message this evening. He went mute during the treat you wanted for him due to his fathers poor behaviour.

What are you going to do with his message? How many more times will he need to be bullied into silence before change happens.

What is his father teaching him about behaviour and how to treat people?

What are you both modelling about family life and relationships?

This.

He's an arsehole. Yes, depression is ugly and repellant, and that's not a reason to reject someone. But neither is it the OP's job, nor their tiny children's, to try to accommodate this flaming monolith in the centre of their lives at the expense of their own mental wellbeing.

He is not the man I married, who I loved. He was kind and loving. I mean it, so kind. Everybody told me I'd got a goodun with him. I miss that man so much.

Have you explained this to him?

If he has no interest in even trying to be that man again, by getting treatment, then he really isn't that man and you'd be much happier without him.

@Serenissima123 it is NOT OPs responsibility to fix his mental health. He's a grown man making his family's life miserable. He can take responsibility for himself and speak to a GP if he wants treatment for his depression,

Fathers can be deeply flawed, but their presence matters for a sense of cohesion in the family. When I heard my parents arguing as a child, I would be filled with dread at the thought of them separating. Only in very rare cases is it any form if a solution.

@Serenissima123 About 50% of marriages end in divorce, so it's obviously a solution fairly often, unless they're all wrong. I was the opposite, I kept telling my mum she should leave. One day I said it and she replied that she'd rented a house. I was very happy.

He sounds like an extremely grumpy and difficult person, but where in that did you see abuse?

@Serenissima123 He is financially abusive. He also controls the family/home with his moods.

It’s not just eating out. I’d like to eat out more than once every 4 years but I could live without it if I was able to do other stuff with my kids.

I just want to be able to treat them, whether that be a meal at Pizza Express (I chose that because I thought it would be child friendly) or going on a day out to a zoo or farm park every couple of months.

But DH just cannot comprehend it. He is on edge all of the time, it’s unbearable. The vibe he caused in Pizza Express was unbearable. I am starting to think he did it on purpose to put me off wanting to do it again.

He reluctantly agreed to go but I think he did so knowing he was going to ruin it and complain. He was actively looking for problems, eg kicking off at the waitress for not offering an EBF 5 month old a high chair. I’m sad for my son, he will now associate eating out with daddy kicking off and mummy and daddy arguing.

If I were to take the DC somewhere and paid a £25 entry fee I’d be ranted at later on for going. If I convinced him to come with us on a weekend he’d ruin it.

I don't like saying this as I think it's thrown around too easily, but leave him.

I remember my dad being horrible about money. He once screamed at mum and hurt her in front of my sister and I because she'd bought us a video game. I am terrified around money now, I count everything up at the supermarket, I know the price of everything, I feel guilty spending a penny. Husband and I have a really great income and can absolutely afford treats but I'm so traumatised growing up with my dad that I deny myself.

Don't let that happen to your children. They will notice his tightness and meanness. There's a massive difference between being frugal and being controlling and awful and he sounds the latter.

People saying £150 isn't a lot. It's enough, it's plenty for a family day out or a meal or two out a month, especially if you use vouchers or go midweek type thing. Denying your children those fun experiences makes him a huge twat in my eyes.

[quote KurtWilde]@Serenissima123 it is NOT OPs responsibility to fix his mental health. He's a grown man making his family's life miserable. He can take responsibility for himself and speak to a GP if he wants treatment for his depression, [/quote]
Of course it's not her responsibility, but in a marriage you help each other. I'm just suggesting ways she might communicate to him how much he's hurting her, so he might consider getting help after all.

Fathers can be deeply flawed, but their presence matters for a sense of cohesion in the family.

What rot.

£150 is approx £35 a week to spend on fun things.

Pizza express with a tight arse probably had everyone choosing the cheapest on the menu and drinking water. Likely could have cost £30/40 as their cheapest pizza is £9.

Can’t believe people would side with the DH on this. If you can’t go out with your family one time in four years there is something wrong.

Yes, it's the tension that wears you down. Honestly, growing up in a house that doesn't feel comfortable while one particular person is in it is a horrible experience.

You're not asking much. To use some of the money you know you can reasonably afford to do something nice for the kids. Only to have it spoiled by him.

It's the fact that he went along with it, but made it fecking awful that gets me. If he genuinely thought they couldn't afford it, he should have said so. Instead, he grumpily agreed to go, tried to derail things in the face of practicalities like bedtimes etc., behaved like a boor, made his young son feel like he's not allowed to speak, and STILL had to pay the bill.

@PepeSilviaDoesNotExist

£150 is approx £35 a week to spend on fun things.

Pizza express with a tight arse probably had everyone choosing the cheapest on the menu and drinking water. Likely could have cost £30/40 as their cheapest pizza is £9.

Can’t believe people would side with the DH on this. If you can’t go out with your family one time in four years there is something wrong.

Couldn't agree more.

He is not the Great One Whose Needs Must Be Met.

@iklboo

Fathers can be deeply flawed, but their presence matters for a sense of cohesion in the family.

What rot.

Hear hear

People saying £150 isn't a lot. It's enough, it's plenty for a family day out or a meal or two out a month, especially if you use vouchers or go midweek type thing.
But you don't want to spend every penny you have! I'm the one that watches money in this house. When we were bad and any money was left you just panicked and secretly planned on how to get as much as possible through to the next month so you had more wriggle room if something went wrong (huge bill or car issues).

"The responsibility of being the main bread winner for 2 small children and having 150 left at the end of the month for emergency???
Think I'd be depressed"

I agree. £150 isn't a lot to be left with at the end of the month and I wouldn't want to fritter it on fast food if I were in your position.

His behaviour was completely out of order, no arguments there, but I bet if you got to the bottom of this, anxiety over money would be the issue.

But you don't want to spend every penny you have!

Fine, but he didn't have to act like an absolute twat and keep having a go at the waitress did he?

Op
I think you need to tell him everything you've said here .
That you miss the old him
That you're embarrassed of the man he is now regardless of the reason
Tell him unless he makes a meaningful effort to change you will leave him..
Either he steps up or he doesn't but you can't continue like this

@me4real

Fathers can be deeply flawed, but their presence matters for a sense of cohesion in the family. When I heard my parents arguing as a child, I would be filled with dread at the thought of them separating. Only in very rare cases is it any form if a solution.

@Serenissima123 About 50% of marriages end in divorce, so it's obviously a solution fairly often, unless they're all wrong. I was the opposite, I kept telling my mum she should leave. One day I said it and she replied that she'd rented a house. I was very happy.

He sounds like an extremely grumpy and difficult person, but where in that did you see abuse?

@Serenissima123 He is financially abusive. He also controls the family/home with his moods.

Children with divorced parents are more likely to have behavioural issues. They are more likely to drop out of education. They are four times as likely to have social problems. They are 300% more likely to have mental health issues.

The list goes on and on. And it's not that those who aren't divorcing all have wonderful marriages. It's the cohesion and stability that makes the difference, not the perfectiom of the parents.

Yes, around half of marriages end in divorce, and as divorce rates have gone up, children's wellbeing has declined.

@Vaterinadf I really feel for you on this, it sounds so miserable. Can you sit down with him and have a serious talk about what is going on. Hear his side, ask in his opinion what is going on and let him know how it's affecting you and also how it's affecting your children. Maybe don't issue ultimatums but talk about him seeking help and let him know you aren't prepared for this to be the way your life is and surely he isn't either.

If he just shuts you down or gets defensive even when you are being kind and calmly having a conversation about your concerns then I think that tells you this is just the way it is now and it will be up to you to choose whether to stay with him or not. The way he's treating you will kill any love you have for him eventually anyway.

I grew up with my dad being like this and it got worse. I'm still affected by it now in my 30s. Yes it was a mental health issue but by refusing to acknowledge and address that he made life miserable for us all.

He sounds absolutely horrible. I really feel for you and your children. Given you rent, so no huge financial commitments, do you have anywhere you could go with your children? Family?

If you asked him what kind of night he thought your son had had, I wonder what he would have said. Personally I remember that age as so wonderful, where they're old enough to have a proper conversation but young enough to be wowed by quite ordinary things. Your husband has ruined that one day for your child - how many more days will you let him ruin?

His comments about depression are just insulting. He's just saying that to defend his own shit behaviour. He's not interested in seeing a doctor; I think he knows a doctor would see right through him.

Fine, but he didn't have to act like an absolute twat and keep having a go at the waitress did he?
No, how he acted was ridiculous, the only thing I understand was him not wanting to spend the money on a pizza place