AIBU to ask which is the best Cambridge College for Economics

[SophiaLorenxoxo]

DD is hoping to apply to Cambridge to do Economics next year. It seems that several Colleges within Cambridge offer Economics and you have to apply to the specific College you want to go to. What are the factors that need to be taken into consideration? We have no knowledge whatsoever about the Oxbridge system.

Thanks for any advice.

@SophiaLorenxoxo

DD is hoping to apply to Cambridge to do Economics next year. It seems that several Colleges within Cambridge offer Economics and you have to apply to the specific College you want to go to. What are the factors that need to be taken into consideration? We have no knowledge whatsoever about the Oxbridge system.

Thanks for any advice.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education

@Ginuwine

Thank you. I have posted this on the Higher Education board as well.

The teaching is done by departments and colleges are for pastoral care and living in. Having said that, you will be taught by different teachers from different colleges and you have a director of studies in your own college who is overall 'in charge' of your degree and will supervise you for many of your papers in the first year or two, probably (part I). The colleges have a profile of types of students - so you might get one that's 60% computer science and known as "good" for that, but that really means that a particular don is supervising a large number of students there. You could be at a different college and still supervised by that don. The degree is just as good everywhere, it just depends if you want to hang out with lots of people doing similar courses in your college. I'd look at who is directing studies in each college and go for someone whose area of work seems most congenial. plus you then have whether you'd like a big or small college, whether the personal tutors there seem nice too.

(btw they're not 'dons' in Cambridge)

I have experience of Oxford not Cambridge and not in economics but I know the general approach so here is my advice.

1. Different colleges have very different atmopsheres and cultures. This will be her home and the basis of her social and academic life so you need to pick one which suits her. First port of call would be the prospectus and forums like student room etc. Some colleges for example are known for being very posh or for attracting more state school students, some are more arty, some are small, some large. Which one is 'best' is very much personal taste.

2. Some colleges are easier to get into than others, you might want to consider this when applying.

Thank you all for this advice.

As above - the teaching at each college will be same as it's run by the departments, so your DD will go to lectures with students from all other colleges. The supervisions (basically a tutorial, 2 students to 1 teacher) are organised by college but they'll all be similar so no differences to speak of really)

Colleges do have different cultures though, so it's really important that you choose one that fits your DD's interests etc. Does she want somewhere with mainly state school people (eg: Churchill), somewhere old (Pembroke, Trinity Hall etc) somewhere small (Peterhouse, Corpus Christi), in the centre of town (eg: Emmanuel, Caius), on the river (Clare, Kings) somewhere modern and less touristy (Robinson, Fitzwilliam) or women's only (Newnham, Murray Edwards). You can study economics at all colleges but some colleges doe tend to have a bit of a specialism, for example I went to Churchill to study NatSci (Chemistry) and chose this partly because there were lots of scientists and engineers, partly because those who were there were mostly from state schools and partly because it jus felt right.

The only way to get a true picture is to visit, but while Trinity and John's are very impressive looking, I found the students there to be, in the main, very private school and with snobby superior attitudes. (It's no accident that people sing "I'd rather be at Oxford than at John's).

Happy to answer any more questions if the above is helpful.

@Palavah

(btw they're not 'dons' in Cambridge)

Are you sure? You don't find people very often saying "I am a don," but for sure I could identify a Fellow of a Cambridge college as a don when speaking in the third person. I mean, it's not terribly accurate or specific, but in speech I'd think it was fine.

When I was there, I don't think I ever met a single person who regretted the college they ended up at. So don't stress too much!

I would argue that academic factors between colleges are a second order issue. All lectures are provided centrally and you can have supervisions from any teaching staff from any college, not just your own.

My starting point would be that this could be DD's home for the next three years so the things to think about are does she want a big college or a small one? An old one or a new one? What's the location like? Does she want a college on the rivet or not fussed?

In the mists of time when I applied, you could get "alternative prospectuses" published by CUSU and the JCRs in each college written by students about their impressions of life in their college. If they are still a thing, I would recommend them. Also just go when you can and take a stroll round some colleges and see what she thinks.

Oxford grad here.

Your college is like your university 'home base'. It's where you live, eat, socialise if yours has a bar, join sports teams etc. Your social life & friendship circle is likely to have strong roots in your college.

Your course is run by the university, not the college. Economics at one college is the same course as economics at another college, so picking your college is not necessarily about picking the best one for your course.

That said, here's how I picked my college:
#1: I was doing a very challenging niche degree & only 3 colleges had resident tutors in my subject, so I picked one of those because I wanted to do well in my course and having a tutor who understood the demands of the subject and could help me out if needed was important to me
#2: my college also had a library with a good collection of books in my chosen subject so I wanted easy access to those extra books because I already knew the department library got over-subscribed very fast
#3: it was close to my department, I didn't want a 30 minute walk across town every day for my lectures (I may not have mentioned this at interview)
#4: it was a large college, leaning left wing with a reputation for being very friendly and having a mix of student backgrounds. I do not come from a wealthy family, was not privately educated & have very liberal views and wanted to be part of a college that reflected that and had similar values to me

I hope this helps choosing colleges to apply to a little easier :)

Try the Education forum, or The Studentroom website

Visit but do google all the colleges on student forums. Applying to colleges where she might be a good fit will increase her chances of getting in - jesus is often considered sporty for example, and when I applied (nearly 20 yrs ago) I was told Magdalene struggled to attract women, state school in particular. St John's & Trinity are quite known for being posh, kings was supposed to be a bit more state/grammar school. Lots of friends who were into music opted for Caius & Clare. Then there's location, some people prefer being out of town, some people will want to be in a college on the river. The colleges vary in size too, and the older ones may have more traditions which you may love or hate!

But the colleges are more about the pastoral side - all the students are part of the same academic departments. University wide extra curricular societies are open to all students.

Some good advice here already. Things to think about: does she want to be close to the city or further out? 5 minute walk to lectures or happy to cycle? Old college or not bothered? Have a look at the CUSU alternative prospectus and watch tours online to get a feel for the place. Each college is also "linked" to all counties in the UK and London boroughs. This means they are responsible for outreach for those specific areas so you might find there are some events/programmes she can take part in as well as wider university events. Lastly, there's a project just about to start for specific WP students called Apply: Cambridge to support students in making applications. If she's eligible then get her to apply, deadline midnight tomorrow!

2) Some colleges are easier to get into than others, you might want to consider this when applying.

Nowadays (and it was different in the past), college choice isn't meant to have an impact on a candidate's likelihood of getting into the university. It might increase their chances of getting pooled to another college (pooling is when a popular college acknowledges they have more candidates deserving of places than they have places, and they then put those candidates in 'pool' so that other colleges can 'fish' them out and take them on).

In theory, if you try to game the system and apply to a college that doesn't get many applications in your subject, they won't simply take you because they have four places and you're one of only four people who applied. They'd also have to look at the pool and see if there are other, better people already there.

Forgot to add if she doesn't want to choose or can't then she can submit an open application which randomly assigns a college. College choice doesn't impact on the chances of getting in

Some factors you should consider:

1. How many place does the college offer for that subject.
2. What proportion of state educated vs private educated students does the college typically take.
3. Research the college and find out what their key ethos etc is.

Highly recommend to go and visit in person and check them out. It’s tempting to apply for the college that offers the most places and therefore gives the best chance of a place but this is what a lot of people do. It is much better to research and visit the colleges, and apply to the one that your daughter gets the best feeling about regardless of anything else.

Yes, it is worth bearing in mind that some colleges have higher application rates than others, so for example your dd might be competing for a place against 20 prospective students at one college versus 15 at another. Since she does not have a particular college in mind, she could make a tactical choice based on application rates from recent years (I believe these numbers are available).

There is the pool system, where a student who has been made an offer for their subject but not for their chosen college can be made an offer by another college with places still available. This helps balance out the different application rates somewhat.

It’s also worth looking at which academics are associated with which colleges, and particularly who the directors of studies are for economics. Its somewhat helpful if your dd’s specific interests are a good match for her DoS’s, though it isn’t essential.

Different colleges are different sizes, in different locations, with different vibes. It’s worth visiting if you can or, if not, having a good look at the prospective students sections of their websites. Would she rather be in the centre of town or further out? How close is her college to the economics faculty building and library? Is she excited by the idea of living in a traditional courts and spires setting (bear in mind first year accommodation is not usually in the old courts) or would she like a modern feel (often with better plumbing!)

Lastly...it doesn’t matter all that much. I picked my college because I was very excited to work with a particular DoS...and arrived to find he was on sabbatical! I was a bit disappointed at first, but my replacement DoS was excellent, I still had a great time and enjoyed my studies, and the professor whose work I found inspiring supervised my dissertation - by which time I was more prepared to get the most out of the experience. So don’t worry too much about making the “right” choice - it’s not so very important.

college choice isn't meant to have an impact on a candidate's likelihood of getting into the university.

It does, though. I didnt know anyone pooled from a less popular college to a more popular one, I knew many people pooled from the likes of kings, trinity, jesus etc and selected out by Murray Edward's.

@Hollowgast

As above - the teaching at each college will be same as it's run by the departments, so your DD will go to lectures with students from all other colleges. The supervisions (basically a tutorial, 2 students to 1 teacher) are organised by college but they'll all be similar so no differences to speak of really)

Colleges do have different cultures though, so it's really important that you choose one that fits your DD's interests etc. Does she want somewhere with mainly state school people (eg: Churchill), somewhere old (Pembroke, Trinity Hall etc) somewhere small (Peterhouse, Corpus Christi), in the centre of town (eg: Emmanuel, Caius), on the river (Clare, Kings) somewhere modern and less touristy (Robinson, Fitzwilliam) or women's only (Newnham, Murray Edwards). You can study economics at all colleges but some colleges doe tend to have a bit of a specialism, for example I went to Churchill to study NatSci (Chemistry) and chose this partly because there were lots of scientists and engineers, partly because those who were there were mostly from state schools and partly because it jus felt right.

The only way to get a true picture is to visit, but while Trinity and John's are very impressive looking, I found the students there to be, in the main, very private school and with snobby superior attitudes. (It's no accident that people sing "I'd rather be at Oxford than at John's).

Happy to answer any more questions if the above is helpful.

Just going to jump in, as a graduate of St John's who went to a state school that really didn't send many students to Oxbridge, to say that I was enormously happy there and didn't find it snobby at all! I had lots of friends from all kinds of different backgrounds.

I think almost half the undergrads at St John's tend to be state-educated (she says, failing to find figures more recent than 2018) - not as good as Churchill's 75%, granted, but comparable to some of the more modern colleges mentioned, like Robinson (48.6 per cent, vs Robinson's 48.8).

It's quite a sporty college and one of the wealthier ones - but I experienced that latter aspect through the facilities being great, rather than through feeling out of place - and I think that's why there is a bit of rivalry from other colleges. The song mentioned above is very much a joke, I never had anyone be mean to me because I was a Johnian.

To be honest, college stereotypes are just that - King's isn't full of Communists either, despite its reputation! (In fact, two of the most leftwing people I met were at St John's.) My advice would be to visit as many as you can and see which one 'clicks' for your DD. As PP have said, college is just where you live; teaching is done by department, and she'll most likely end up with a mix of friends from her subject, her college, and the societies she joins, so really it's a choice of where she wants to call home.

Have a look at the admission statistics by college here OP:

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/statistics

You can see which colleges receive lots of applications and offer no places to students pooled from other colleges, and which get far fewer offers and take as many as half their students from the pool.

If it was genuinely fair, it would be like school choice, and the academic departments would rank the candidates first of all to choose which should get places, then send the lists to colleges of which of the students chose that college, for them to rank/pool which they prefer.

Mumsnetter on very trivial topic where they want to cause intrigue... "Name change in case outing"

Oxbridge Mumsnetter when topic of admissions comes up

"Here's my college, time period I was there" etc

Am just being playful but it's always funny to see.

For avoidance of bitterness accusations, I went somewhere that's always ranked top 5 worldwide for unis, but yeah.. The Internet

@Ginuwine

Mumsnetter on very trivial topic where they want to cause intrigue... "Name change in case outing"

Oxbridge Mumsnetter when topic of admissions comes up

"Here's my college, time period I was there" etc

Am just being playful but it's always funny to see.

For avoidance of bitterness accusations, I went somewhere that's always ranked top 5 worldwide for unis, but yeah.. The Internet

Maybe you could share your perspective on your own university application experience. I’d be interested, and it might be useful to the op

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

college choice isn't meant to have an impact on a candidate's likelihood of getting into the university.

It does, though. I didnt know anyone pooled from a less popular college to a more popular one, I knew many people pooled from the likes of kings, trinity, jesus etc and selected out by Murray Edward's.

Why would you know anyone pooled from a less popular college? If you did, it would indicate the system probably wasn't working very well.

@Feawen

That's fair - I'm being an arse.

State school educated. Twenty years ago my first choice college rejected me - they had a hell of a lot of applicants and I was invited to interview there first, but it didn't work out. for my first choice college, think a dozen UK prime ministers and you'll guess which one it was.

I then went into a kind of "pooling system" whereby I was allocated a "second choice" college. This time all three tutors interviewed me on the day rather than separate interviews as before. Was amazing - this time I felt completely relaxed and somehow delivered, as I got an offer.

I don't really know what the moral of that story is , as there was a bit of randomness and luck in getting another bite of the cherry when my first choice had rejected me. But actually the smaller college with its more pastoral air, its great in-college life and how everyone takes meals in halls.. I think on reflection that it was the right one for my personality regardless.

So maybe some of this is about how much does the college "fit" you and who you are, aside from the reputation for the subject and the projected prestige by association of famous alumni.

Note: at the time of writing I am still not Prime Minister

Thank you all for your advice. It's invaluable. I have just looked at stats which shows only 1 in 9 applicants for economics at Cambridge get offered a place. Knowing this, if DD gets into absolutely any College I will be delighted!