Are your employers still being flexible re childcare breakdowns

[needabreak5]

I have DC2 (age 2) in private nursery 8-6 while, (DC1 (age 5) in school with wraparound care) we both work full time, mix of home and office as required.

Lockdown 1 last April/May - school and nursery both closed. Employers were fully understanding flexible and allowed us to work from home and we juggled working and childcare, making up a lot of the ours evenings and weekends and employer was fine with that.

Lockdown January - Nursery stayed open (thankfully), though we did have to move nursery as our original nursery didnt reopen. School aged child was at home, with us trying to home school and look after him and work at the same time. My employer wasn't as flexible but DH's still was. Didn't do as much home-schooling as we would have liked but we managed.

Now. DH has recently changed jobs following redundancy, new role expected to be on site full time (his new job comes under critical worker). I'm at home and office about 50/50. However nursery are very much struggling to accommodate the children, with DC being turned away as staff are isolating etc. They prioritize key workers but most parents seem to fall into that category. this has happened 3 days in the past 3 weeks. My employer is expecting me to be available working hours 9-5 and go to office when planned its really stressing me out as DC2 is full on so I cannot look after him and work at the same time. Should I still be asking for flexibility from my employer if nursery cannot take him? Or is it too much to ask?

Should add, DC2's school never have this problem and have provided wraparound till 6pm since they reopened on 8th March. The nursery have strict limits on ratios and bubbles.,, combined with sickness etc, they really struggle with staffing due to Covid. lots of staff are being told they need to self-isolate for separate reasons. Other nurseries in the area are full and our closest one still hasn't reopened.

Can you find some kind of back up? If this is going to be an ongoing problem. There are lots of students looking for work at the moment. If you go on childcare.co.uk you could find someone local to babysit in emergencies.

Thanks, its always so last minute as its first come first served at the door, so turned away at the door. I'm not sure now much notice an emergency backup provider would need, but I will look at childcare.co.uk, thanks!

It's really hard. I think the nursery should have a back up really. They are not providing the service you are paying for. A one off, understandable but three times in three weeks! That's just really poor. Then your employer is expected to accommodate. I would look into alternative childcare.

I think this is really bad on the part of your nursery for them to be turning people away so often? What do they expect people to do if they are actually having to go into work? This is what you're paying them for.

That said, I do think your work should be understanding of your personal circumstances. However, you've said that you can't work with your DS2 there as he's so full on so not sure even flexibility on their part would help much unless you literally only worked after your DH is home? Sounds like the only option is to find a more reliable childcare option as this nursery is not good enough.

To be honest I would be putting this back on the nursery. Unless your child has to isolate due to a case at the nursery or under test and trace rules I would be arguing that you pay them to provide care on the agreed days and that's what they should provide. If a member of staff is being told to self isolate them surely the children will be too as they will have come in contact?

I don't think employers should have to be as flexible now unless it's a matter of you and/or children having to self isolate in accordance with government rules. If your nursery is failing to provide the care you have contracted with them then I'd be expecting an employee to find alternative care - for the simple reason that covid isn't going anywhere any time soon and this could go on for years

I think if you can complete your work at home and outside of normal core hours if necessary (rather being in a customer facing role that requires attendance during set hours) then your employer should at least consider allowing you to work flexibly. COVID is something we will likely have to learn to live with but currently we don’t know if the requirement to isolate if positive or a close contact will carry on in the future. If it is something we will have to do moving forward then employers who can allow flexibility should allow it.

Your nursery are managing this really badly if they’re at the point of turning people away at the door.

My employer is still being flexible. I’ve started doing a short day on a Monday because I don’t have childcare then and doing hours very early in the morning and after DC is in bed. DC is isolating after being a close contact of a case at nursery so is home with me this week and I’ve taken a mix of annual leave, flexi and attempting to struggle through work with a 3 year old interrupting every 5 seconds. I had a big deadline at the end of the week which has had to be rearranged. They’re not thrilled but understand I have little alternative. Probably helps that we are all wfh as still not allowed back to our office. My work is getting done but it’s exhausting. Things will have to improve fast by the new school year because it’s getting a bit ridiculous now.

However, you've said that you can't work with your DS2 there as he's so full on so not sure even flexibility on their part would help much unless you literally only worked after your DH is home?

Yes, I'm literally asking my employer to let me do most of my work 6pm-midnight and catch up at weekend. With just keeping on top of quick emails / teams messages throughout the day with one eye on DS constantly (if DS naps I can do an hour or so but that's it really. its definitely not great). its really frustrating but other parents at the nursery seem to be really understanding so I feel bad thinking its shit them not being able to take DC, I fear if we move childcare, resettle and then get similar issues, as the nursery are good otherwise.

My team are currently still WFH with occasional visits to the office to do tasks that cannot be done from home. If a member of my team had this problem I would happily allow them to work in the evening instead of during the day and I would adapt as necessary with other team members to cover the issues that need to be completed during normal working hours. I would do whatever was in my authority as a line manager to support a team member if they found themselves with a similar problem and I am confident that the other team members would also be supportive. We are however a small team and like to look after each other, managers of larger teams might find tut more difficult

thanks. My employer has said they do understand my situation and do what I can but also just hinted that its not great not to be fully available during the working day or not turn up at the office last minute, and say if we have call / teams meetings they shouldn't be interrupted by child as childcare is generally available. so I'm getting mixed messages on whether they are okay with it or not.

If your DH new job makes him a ‘critical’ worker then surely the nursery will now prioritise your child’s place.

The difficulty is you more than likely still need to liaise with others who are there during the working day. It's incredibly frustrating when an answer is needed and you know you won't get anything until late at night, or you need certain people around the table. Is this the issue you have?

If you work completely in silo then it would be much much easier to manage.

@needabreak5

However, you've said that you can't work with your DS2 there as he's so full on so not sure even flexibility on their part would help much unless you literally only worked after your DH is home?

Yes, I'm literally asking my employer to let me do most of my work 6pm-midnight and catch up at weekend. With just keeping on top of quick emails / teams messages throughout the day with one eye on DS constantly (if DS naps I can do an hour or so but that's it really. its definitely not great). its really frustrating but other parents at the nursery seem to be really understanding so I feel bad thinking its shit them not being able to take DC, I fear if we move childcare, resettle and then get similar issues, as the nursery are good otherwise.

I don't think this is an unreasonable ask if this is literally happening about once a week max like you've said and you are able to work the other days as normal.

I do still think the nursery should be doing better though, it's really not acceptable to be turning you away at the door when you are paying them for reliable childcare. You're not asking for their help as a favour.

If your DH new job makes him a ‘critical’ worker then surely the nursery will now prioritise your child’s place.

they will but they say most parents are key workers. both parents KW get first refusal. others first come first served. non KW no chance on the limited availability days. they send an email out at 7am when there's v.limited availability and its first come first served for key workers. big queue for it opening. I have managed to get DS in a lot of the time over the past few months but 3 times recently i haven't.

Find a new nursery. I’ve had 5 years of nursery between a couple of DC and this has never happened. I pay them for reliability. I would be absolutely livid at this tbh.

Nursery’s should be using agency cover themselves not rely on you this sort. I hope they are not charging on their first come first served basis for the rest of you.

@KeyWorker

If your DH new job makes him a ‘critical’ worker then surely the nursery will now prioritise your child’s place.

i think it largely depends on the nursery. Our nursery had rules that only one parent had to be a key worker, but some nearby it had to be both parents.

I think this is a very difficult situation though and would absolutely be having a word with nursery. if they're only allocating spaces on a first come first served basis are they only taking fees on this basis too?

my employer wasn't happy with us trying to work and take care of kids (both my kids are under 4 currently) so they were happy with us flexing hours as and when we could. dh did childcare in the morning and i did it in the afternoon and we caught up in the evenings.

however i do see it from the employers point of view. depending on your field of work, only working during the evenings might be problematic for the business. in that there would be no one available to assist etc. although from the other side of this, working nighttime hours might improve productivity of teams if you can do work, and send it on to the rest of the team so its there for the morning...

i was in NZ a few years ago and had to jump on some work things while i was there (on vacation but had to answer a few emails and was give the time back). the 12 hour time difference worked in our favour this time. i worked while the team was sleeping they had things when they arrived at work.

The nursery need to revoke places if they can't afford to accommodate all the children. Is there another nursery you could sign up for? It's not a normal response, and the nursery is at fault, not your employer.

BUT you do need some kind of childcare plan for if there's a known covid case and you need to isolate.

Thanks all, I think I will look into other nurseries (there are only a few that work for drop off as we currently only have one car which DH is now using for work) and they couldn't offer full time when I last looked but i stupidly didn't go on waitlist. I thought things would get better not worse but the last few weeks have been super stressful.

I also think it's partly due to DH starting new job not wfh and I'm now taking all the burden for a while while he settles.

This is ridiculous and I can't believe more parents aren't pulling out there children. Are you expected to pay when they can't attend? (And I say that as someone who has paid full fees throughout this pandemic even when childcare was shut completely).

I would be looking urgently for new childcare. They should be using agency workers if they don't have enough staff, not first come, first served. Ridiculous way to run a nursery.

The nursery is being ridiculous. And I'm sorry to say this but I'm sick of some of the parents I work with who are "making up the time in the evening". The truth is office hours are there for a reason and not being able to reach colleagues during office hours makes my own working hours longer. And I get no understanding and for the last 12 months have ended up working 9-5 and also 5pm-late because of people with kids. So when do I get to see my own partner? When do I get family time? Employers have started cracking down on this for this reason. I do feel for you, I know you're under a lot of pressure and must be very tired. But everyone has had and is still having a tough year for different reasons.

Mine has always been very flexible - they're a very progressive, family-friendly employer. That said, it sounds like your issue is your nursery, not your employer. Our nursery re-opened last June and we haven't had a day closed since. They have certain had staff who had to test and self-isolate (none who have tested positive), but it's never affected us because they have sufficient staffing and can always pull someone else in to fill a spot. Dh and I have only had to miss maybe 3 days in the past year when we were self-isolating waiting on a test result before we could send ours back.

Your nursery is taking the piss and they should have agency cover. They are doing an awful job of managing it if you can’t trust that you’ll be able to drop your child in the morning.