To think Teaching Assistants are vastly underpaid for their role?

[altoran]

When the role of Teaching Assistant was created, the idea was that they would help with basic tasks like photocopying, wall displays, etc. It was a very basic role with no real responsibility.
Now Teaching Assistants have a lot of responsibility and are very involved in children's education, although under the supervision of a teacher. But they receive very little over minimim wage for this.
AIBU to think they are vastly underpaid?

@singsingbluesilver agree with your points entirely.

I'm sure some secondary schools are using TAs like this. I just think it's more common place in primaries...particularly using the TA as a full time teacher long term as pp described

The poster who was talking about managing staff but she's not a teacher. I got the impression she has a leadership role but isn't necessarily a line manager? If that makes sense. Like isn't in charge of performance management. Poster please correct me if I'm wrong

TAs I know find other work to top up their earnings, earning more per hour in retail/bar work than in a school.

One of the sneakier/unseen elements of the spreading of pay over 12 months is that people don’t qualify for benefits (or as much too up benefit) during the summer when often they’d be entitled to.

There was a push in one council in Scotland a while back that Classroom assistants (different role, but similar in terms of paid for term time only and speed over 12 months) should be allowed to choose between term time wages and equal spread because of that issue.

@Sweak yes, I am primary so that might make a difference. Although I think academies can arrange things to suit themselves sometimes too, financially that is. I was in an academy school.

With unqualified teachers in secondary, I do know of this happening. However, from what I know, it tends to be people with a relevant degree and expertise but no qts. Although schools do offer training on the job in some cases. In secondary, it always used to be maths teachers that were so desperately wanted and were given the 'golden handshake'.

Definitely consider getting into a school first, show them what you can do then you're in a good position to ask for more responsibility. Have you got a subject preference?

Oh @mag2305 I'm not unqualified. I have QTS too. I've just got a new teaching job starting in September.

And yes in secondary schools, the very rare posts for unqualified were for graduates. Like I say I saw that for private schools though. I'm sure it's happening in secondary academies too but it's very rare to see a post advertised that doesn't require QTS

Singsingbluesilver The management of our teachers is split. The subject head manages them in all aspects of teaching and learning. I manage them in the Pastoral part of their role, safeguarding etc.

@witchcraftandhokum are you a non teaching head of year?

Not exactly but similar.

@Sweak oh sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick there. Oops. Good luck for your new position in September, hope it goes well.

Witchcraft so you are in middle management but on less pay than those teachers who are not ? I do wonder how having multiple managers works out for the teaching staff.

singsingbluesilver yes I'm on less pay than the teachers I manage. My salary sometimes may look similar but then I'm pro-rata'd to term time only but they aren't.

In answer to your question about split management it works well. I have the experience and knowledge to train and support them in Pastoral issues where subject heads don't.

@Flawedperfection

Haven’t read entire thread yet, but previously TAs did half the work of teachers for half the pay which was fair enough (I’d rather have done the TA job out of the two if I’m honest); now TAs do the work of a teacher (more or less) for the same TA pat, whilst the teacher will basically now do the work of two teachers. Crazy...

I find it odd people say they do the job of the teacher- In my school they finish at 3.30, come in with the children and have no work to do at home, how can that be compared to teacher hours?????

Should add I still think they are underpaid but you can't compare! That's why so many TAs don't train as teachers, they don't want the responsibility or extra hours

Witchcraft it must be difficult to compartmentalize those aspects of the role. Behaviour management is one of the top priorities for teachers and this is very often linked with pastoral issues beyond the classroom.

In my experience anyone who managed me was also involved in my performance management targets and reviews - someone senior to me on payscale and on the mangement structure. Of course I know that not all school s are the same. In my school the pastoral support team managed within their team - none of them managed teaching staff. In the same way teaching staff did not manage the pastoral team.

singsingbluesilver
Every school is different and the major

Sorry posted too soon

Every school is different and our teaching staff report it works well.

Witchcraft - well the important thing is that it works. I was just responding to your comment that you don't get the perks of being a teacher yet you have more responsibilities and less pay than those teachers not in middle mangement.

Definitely. I feel sorry for some of the TA’s at my DC’s school, they have to take over from the teacher if they’re in a meeting or even absent sometimes. In fact, my DS’s teacher doesn’t work Friday’s so the TA teaches them every Friday. I’d hope they got paid more for picking up the slack but I doubt it, shameful.

@mag2305 thank you ☺️

@Witchcraftandhokum I think you and @singsingbluesilver have differing ideas on what constitutes managing staff? Are you involved in setting and reviewing performance management targets? You can manage an area of work which will involve leading staff but that doesn't make you their manager, if that makes sense?

I think non teaching pastoral leads can work really well in schools as you can deal with things quickly as you aren't constrained to a timetable

@Gatehouse77

I work as a TA and whilst, as you say, it's much more involved in the children's learning than originally thought I don't know that I'd agree with you about being underpaid.

I don't have overall responsibility, no reports, progress meetings, parents' evenings, emails from parents, no lesson planning, no thinking of differentiation within the class for each subject taught, etc.

When I leave I don't think about any of it whereas a teacher (hopefully!) will.

Exactly this. I have been retired for quite awhile but what you have said seems very clear sighted. However, would add that a good TA is worth her weight in gold.

Nope, the pay is not too low considering the low qualification bar compared to teachers and other jobs with similar qualification levels.

Many jobs are underpaid. I'm a support worker supporting adults with learning difficulties and do long hours all for nmw. Before that I was a care assistant and worked in dementia with getting hit everyday and then covid struck the home. I was more like a nurse on nmw

Sweak I can assure you that as a manager I'm fully aware of what management means!

Yes I line manage and I'm involved in their performance management, particularly around the delivering of the whole school Personal Development Programme.

Witchcraftandhokum you're saying that you are their sole, direct line manager? You are not their manager if you only performance manage on the specific area you lead.

Put it this way. If they were going to be made redundant/fired, would you be the person communicating that decision?

Witchcraft I'm sure you appreciate what you describe is unusual. No need to be sarky. I don't really understand this "involved in their performance management". That doesn't sound like you are a direct line manager.

When I was head of faculty I sat with my team, created the targets and reviewed them at the relevant intervals. I was their line manager.

Heads of year (one of whom was non teaching) led the year team and delivered whole school initiatives related to their role which may also have included training. But they weren't my line manager.

Love Island - I agree with your description of line management, but as a line manager at middle leadership level you wouldn't deal with making almond redundant..that would be SLT.

Not sure why almond was written there!