To be irritated by the Londoner exodus to my town?

[thesecondnamegame]

I've been priced out of my Greater Manchester town by the London diaspora. Anybody who knows the area will know which town I mean. My tatty council town centre terrace is worth 300k. A load of Londoners came up after the BBC moved to Manchester. Half the kids in my kid's school's parents are from London and they love to make sure you know that. House prices have become ridiculous and are in a different world to the rest of Greater Manchester. It's ridiculous as it used to be a very unremarkable market town (albiet with not much to it) and now it's gone all 'naice' and I'm having to move 10 miles away because it's reaching the surrounding towns and I simply cannot afford to live here and I want to buy a property. It annoys me, I keep imagining somebody who had a London salary and bought a house in London, sold it, and came up here and bought a house 3 times bigger for the same price as their smaller London home. It just seems like they cheated. There are no school places either, because a lot of the Londoner's chose this particular town for the schools. The catchments are bloody tiny, I know somebody who lives in a village about 4 miles away. The schools in this town are the closest schools. No school would take her child and she ended up having to home educate for months.

All my relatives who bought properties or private rented have had to leave, even those who went to uni and got great jobs.

@dvinlondon Oh love, please seek help. Despite this thread, nobody, absolutely nobody 'hates Londoners' so much that you would be in danger if you went somewhere else for safety. I live in an area in the midlands where there is resentment of people who have come from London, but the resentment is toward those who are snobby about where they've come from and think they are better than us despite the fact that they left London. Even then, people may roll their eyes at these types but that's all it is. Nobody is chasing people out of towns with pitchforks. Nobody is in danger over it. Believe you me, nobody would hold anything against you escaping domestic violence, I don't even think the fact that you are from London would even register to anybody. You're escaping DV.

It sounds to me like you've lived in fear with this man for so long that it's all you know, and you see danger everywhere. That's not me criticising, but there is a way out. Please, please seek help. You may end up out of London and that absolutely shouldn't have to happen, but you will be safe. Nobody is going to have anything against you for it, I promise. People all have their own lives to worry about, families, bills to pay. Nobody will think anything of you leaving London to escape DV and I promise you that nobody will make you unsafe because of it.

@dvinlondon There are also a lot of people from London in Birmingham who have been made homeless and have ended up being located there. You absolutely wouldn't be the only one. I have never, ever, heard any sort of bad word about these poor people who've ended up in that situation. We know it happens, but nobody really has an opinion on it in the first place. I just want to reassure you that you won't be in danger for being a Londoner who's ended up somewhere else for safety. Please, please seek help.

Thank you so much for kindness. Kno not all bad kno need to try. Am trying to get help trying not get scared but frightened and middle class accent.so maybe locals will hate me more. When was in refuge most so kind and nice but two kno they didn't like me cos of how they were with me and things they said. Kno it's my mental health PTSD making fear worse but took over my mind. went mute like kept losing voice cos to hide accent. Frightened to go away from London too much not just bad locals no confidence need what I know. Am trying to get help hard in London was more support in refuge area but am trying. Sorry don't want to upset anyone will keep trying.

@dvinlondon I hope you are okay. What support are you trying to get specifically and can we help?

I second everyone saying that if you were sent out of London you would be fine, and I hope you get out of the situation you are in as soon as possible.

I think working from home will affect house prices. My son struggled to buy a small property in Manchester . He is now in an area increasing in popularity. He is going to be permanently WFH and just travelling in for occasional meetings. He can now consider a more rural property in a cheaper area and he will benefit from the rise in the value of his house.

@alwayscrashinginthesamecar1

This thread has been a wild ride! So people shouldn’t move house now, or shouldn’t be allowed to use their equity to buy a bigger house, or, or something? I’ve moved loads of times, into London and out of it, and to different countries, is that allowed?

And yet if I had stayed in my home town I would be able to afford a massive house as it’s cheap as chips there (NI)! I couldn’t get out of the place quick enough though, and now I have a lovely big house in Oz instead, but I’m guessing the OP wouldn’t approve of that at all.

Got to agree. I'm a keen family tree person/researcher, both of my parent's families have lived in their UK areas for generations and generations.

I was born in Mum's area, haven't lived there since I was knee-high. Grew up o/s.

So if I ''go back'' to either area with my o/s accent and money, I assume its alright to expect I should be able to live there now because I'm a born and bred local despite no one being able to pick it from appearances?

Some stats on poverty in London for the hard of thinking: www.trustforlondon.org.uk/publications/lpp2020/

MN’s attitude to London will never cease to amaze me.

OP, your arguments are coming across as shortsighted and parochial.

It’s like you’ve only cottoned on to the concept of economic migration leading to house prices inflation now that it’s beginning to affect your town. What do you think has been happening in other areas for decades / centuries? This is an international phenomenon - its not just a London / “the North” issue. It’s happening to some degree everywhere - always has and always will.

Anybody who knows the area will know which town I mean

No they won't. It's happening all across Trafford, some areas of Salford (Worsley, Monton),Prestwich, Didsbury, some areas of Oldham (Shaw, Saddleworth). Friends in Wigan and Whitefield are complaining about it. Chorlton is definitely the in trendy area to live, and apparently Hulme and Levenshulme are showing signs of following.

Also you make it sound as if people are a disgrace because they just happened to live in areas which have rocketed in value. You do realise, most people in London did nothing? This is their home, that’s all. I have elderly neighbours who have probably lived in their houses since the 1970s / 1980s if not earlier. God only knows what they bought those houses for back then, but now they are worth millions, yes. But it wasn’t some great scheme on their behalf. It’s just where they live

If you do manage to get on the property ladder now and in 5 / 10 / 30 years, it’s worth many times what you paid for it - that’s not a scheme on your behalf. It’s an economic trend. Not some great plot on behalf of the people of Manchester.

You talk about tax increases for those moving from low yield to high yield areas as if it’s that simple. You do realise that today’s “low yield area” could very quickly, be tomorrow’s “high yield area.” How on earth would your system work? Even in London itself, you can walk 10 minutes down the road and be in an area that has seen much lower house out inflation than where you started. This fluctuates constantly within cities, let alone between them. Are you saying people in expensive areas of Manchester, should be taxed if they want to move to a slightly less expensive part of the city to get a bit more space? Nonsense.

You'd need to be quite old to have made significant money in the London property market and then bought in Alty. I can't imagine there's many people working for the BBC that fit that scenario

• work for BBC
• Mandated to move to NW
• Still need a mortgage
• Made significant equity on a BBC (non celeb) salary on a London property

If that were a Venn diagram...

I've found a few in a good condition on Rightmove

Everyone can solve the London property crisis on Rightmove.

Let's say they managed to get a graduate salary of 50k so got the mortgage and had help with the deposit from their parents.

You seem to be describing a couple of Northerners who want to settle down freakishly early, and have parents living in the North who want to invest in the London property market.

What you are describing is wealth inequality, but I'm not really understanding why the problem here would be Londoners.

Some political parties have suggested higher tax on capital gains, but that doesn't tend to be popular with the electorate. It's going to be even less popular if it specifically discourages relocation of people with skills and qualifications to areas that need investment.

I simply do not believe you. Just like I do not believe the London biased media.

But God forbid that the London biased media should move outside London.

The other point worth making, is that if you are one of the “Londoners” who happened to get in the property ladder at the right time and have benefitted from house price inflation, you would be absolutely insane to squander this equity on property in an area where house prices have generally flatlined or not risen to anything like the same degree. Why would anyone in their right mind do that?

Prices in London are still rising. A £5 million house in central London is likely to be worth £6 / £7 or more in time. People thing about retirement and if your home is your greatest asset, you hold into it if you can! Trust me on this, People are hardly going to think, “Oh I know. Let’s move up north where house prices are relatively static or increasing at a much slower rate. Yes that makes perfect sense to us going forward and we are delighted pay £400k in stamp duty for this privilege.” it’s like taking your money out of a high interest a count and putting it into a lowered interest account. Who does that?

Let me tell you OP, most Londoners have no intention of moving to Manchester, unless they have to because of a job relocation. Or perhaps they are from Manchester originally and, at some point, they want to move back to be nearer family etc. This is their prerogative. But it simply wouldn’t occur to the vast majority otherwise.

“I simply do not believe you. Just like I do not believe the London biased media.

But God forbid that the London biased media should move outside London.”

Got to agree. I'm a keen family tree person/researcher, both of my parent's families have lived in their UK areas for generations and generations.

The trends I've seen in DH and my family and the families of friends ive briefly looked at tell a much more complex story and at times surprising story. It surprised me the amount people did move around actually and certainly on most branches (but not all) of our family its something of a myth that they stayed in the same place for generations particularly after the industrial revolution.

There's a really good case study with one branch of DH's family in Kent. They were farmers and had stayed in the same area for generations but each new generation had a smaller and smaller plot (this is in part due to the unusual inheritance rules). Many of the early settlers to the US came from the area because of this and in part due to their puritan tendencies. The opportunities to own more land were far greater if you moved. Then you get to the 1820s and there starts to be a particular acute problem. There just isnt enough land to support the coming generations. So one of his family decides to pay passage to South Australia and settle as a free man. He did a lot of surveying the area and he returns to Kent and persuades a fair number of his extended family to move too. They go and establish the new colony of South Australia at a time when emigration had previously only been forced. And they do very well out of it. Those who remain struggle with many giving up farming and moving to the cities and taking up completely new trades. And tend to be economically worse off for at least a couple of generations.

Then in my family you have people moving to the city out of abject poverty. The traditional industries such as cloth and wool making in villages collaspe just before the industrial revolution so they move to the cities looking for work. A number do very well and do work themselves out of poverty and into the new urban middle class taking up new skills and trades. This new expanding middle class are then much more mobile and move across the country more frequently - aided by technology changes and the rise of rail travel.

So exploration and technology change have always been significant drivers of movement. A lot has been said about the decline of industry in the uk in recent years and how this has driven young people to move out of mining towns.

There isn't anything new about this.

@Pyewackect

A lot of them were threatened with redundancy if they didn't move.

Yes this. One person I know went and left his support network behind. Another took redundancy as it was too disruptive of a move. The people in your town who work for the bbc didn’t go because they fancied it, they went because they had no choice if they wanted to stay in their profession.

Be angry with the way the governments allow london house prices to be inflated if you want to be angry with anyone. One of the things that drives prices up is that houses / flats in London are used as worldwide investments.

In the 1970s, much of London wasn’t more expensive than the rest of the county. Now it is. Thank Thatcher and her successors for that.

You'd need to be quite old to have made significant money in the London property market and then bought in Alty. I can't imagine there's many people working for the BBC that fit that scenario

Prices in Altrincham have always been high

In fact it has at some point been higher than some parts of London si this isn’t a new thing.

Dh had a job which took him all over the country for a few months at a time.
I remember seeing a terrace house in an estate agents window for £38,000 in Altrincham and remember thinking it seemed quite expensive. We bought in London the following year a similar style house for £30,000.

That part of the North west has always rivalled London prices.
I don’t consider £300,000 for a terrace house that cheap

Yep @Oldermum6 foreign buyers whose properties sit empty are a big issue in London. That inflates prices for the rest of us. Some have never even set foot in the city and never will. The issue is the system not the people trying to make the best of a very competitive market.

@thesecondnamegame

Talking from experience, I have met smug Londoner's who like to go on about how lovely and big their house is and how they are so glad they left London because they got it all nice and cheap.

In other words, they couldn't afford to live there either.

I think the finance boom in the 2000s meant there were many jobs with high pay and people moved into or near London.
I've moved a lot due to DH's job.
When I research ancestors they moved around for work to different part of the UK.
The big change was the collapse of the heavy industries. It was cheaper to produce stuff overseas than here. Perhaps the strict union control over wages didn't help.
So we were left with banking mainly. And huge demand for housing in one area, London.

One of the things that drives prices up is that houses / flats in London are used as worldwide investments.
How would you stop that. Companies could just set up in the UK then buy the properties with 'UK' money.
Perhaps a few more riots or corruption would scare them away.
BBC, Civil Servants should have moved out of London decades ago - we all foot the bill for London weighting when they could have been elsewhere.

OP seems to be arguing that any equity gain on selling a house should be taxed, this could easily be achieved by removing the exemption of Capital Gains Tax on selling a home.

Of course, it would be political suicide for any political party to put this in their next manifesto.

@thesecondnamegame

I've been priced out of my Greater Manchester town by the London diaspora. Anybody who knows the area will know which town I mean. My tatty council town centre terrace is worth 300k. A load of Londoners came up after the BBC moved to Manchester. Half the kids in my kid's school's parents are from London and they love to make sure you know that. House prices have become ridiculous and are in a different world to the rest of Greater Manchester. It's ridiculous as it used to be a very unremarkable market town (albiet with not much to it) and now it's gone all 'naice' and I'm having to move 10 miles away because it's reaching the surrounding towns and I simply cannot afford to live here and I want to buy a property. It annoys me, I keep imagining somebody who had a London salary and bought a house in London, sold it, and came up here and bought a house 3 times bigger for the same price as their smaller London home. It just seems like they cheated. There are no school places either, because a lot of the Londoner's chose this particular town for the schools. The catchments are bloody tiny, I know somebody who lives in a village about 4 miles away. The schools in this town are the closest schools. No school would take her child and she ended up having to home educate for months.

All my relatives who bought properties or private rented have had to leave, even those who went to uni and got great jobs.

I am rather late to this thread but wanted to respond. YABU that this increase is solely down to Londoners moving up/the BBC relocating a load of their employees. I initially didn't know where you meant from your post above, Altrincham has always been extremely prosperous and relatively expensive compared to other suburbs like Sale, Urmston. Yes the town centre was a bit downtrodden for a while, but I don't think it can be described as only recently turning 'naice'. My DH was brought up in the town and 10 years ago couldn't afford to buy there on a NHS doctors salary.

Grammar schools are playing a much bigger part in the mix. I'm aware of several people moving from Manchester to Trafford when their kids are in Year 4/5 ready for secondary. The town often features in newspapers' best place in the country for state schools, so say no more.

I'm not saying it's right, but the situation is the same all over South Manchester and Trafford. I would argue the situation is even worse in places like Urmston, which has very recently gone 'naice' and I know local people I'm friends with are buying in Salford as they can't afford anywhere in Trafford borough. I'm not aware of a single Londoner moving here, that increase has been caused by wider market forces.

And I hate to, but will defend the BBC by agreeing with others that people are relocating to keep their jobs. There is another big tranch of BBC job moves at the moment out of London. Through my connections I know the majority won't move anyway as they want to stay in London for unique media job opportunities.

The knock on effect will be people like OP moving out to their neighbourhood to somewhere new, more will follow and they will probably increase the prices in the new area as a result. This is an issue happening nationwide. As someone rightly pointed out earlier down the thread the issue is capitalism and government policy. Are there many places left in the UK where families can buy affordable houses down the road from where they grew up and be close to their network? Probably not. Unless perhaps are area is quite undesirable/deprived which presents a whole different set of issues for locals.