Smart motorways... utterly bonkers???

[Silvercatowner]

I get that smart motorways are meant to ease congestion, but surely there isn't the capacity to make them smart enough to actually be safe?? The refuges aren't close enough together, and I don't understand how the traffic will be that closely monitored to be able to close off a lane as soon as someone breaks down or has an accident. The whole thing is deeply scary...

They are HORRENDOUS. I was driving down M6 at rush hour recently and a pickup pulling a trailer suddenly lost a wheel from the trailer about 6 or 7 cars ahead while he was travelling in the middle lane. Somehow he managed to cross the the inside lane to the hard shoulder and stop, while maintaining control of the vehicle, all while all the cars in the middle and outside lanes were having to swerve to avoid the wheel which was now rolling towards the central reservation. This was all about a mile or two before the smart motorway started. Doesn’t bear thinking about what would have happened if it had been that little bit further down the road. It would have been a MASSIVE pile up.

@pointythings

Hawkins you're reaching now. All the factors you quote were in existence before smart motorways were brought in. So what the government did was to add another layer of risk on top of all those things, by not having the proposed frequency of refuges, by having ALR in places where it was not safe and by not having a fit for purpose alerts system because it would cost too much.

Changing human behaviour is incredibly difficult. Everyone knows that. Why then would you add a layer of additional risk on top of that? No, this was motorway capacity expansion on the cheap. Like this government does everything on the cheap. The cost is human life.

But they I could argue that your conclusions are based on assumptions e.g. Government does everything on the cheap.

It seems yes some human behaviour is lax, but when they are in charge of a high speed car or truck ect, if they cannot drive in a safe and careful manner and are putting other road users at risk by driving unsafe , just because "changing human behaviour is incredibly difficult" then why are they still driving ?

Hawkins you should really read the article I linked to. Originally, refuges were meant to be in place every 500 metres. That was increased to 2500 metres. It also makes clear that the surveillance system as originally proposed was not implemented. You can't argue with facts. Yes, people should drive better. But we should also be ensuring that the changes made are safe, and not cut costs. I do not understand your insistence on blaming long-standing human behaviour and I really do believe you work for the Highways Agency.

I hate them.
I have to exit a junction on a smart motorway for work and very often during rush hour the traffic is queued up on the ‘live’ lane on the motorway with traffic powering up behind you before stopping or swerving and lorries speeding past while we are stationary. (The junction has as short slip road and traffic lights at the roundabout so there is no choice but to queue)
You also have the idiots not wanting to join the queue who think they can just filter in closer to the exit which is yet another danger as the slow down the moving traffic.

Just reading through the article

"Once a car has broken down in a live lane, it’s a race to warn following traffic of the obstruction ahead. Although Midas can detect cars slowing down, it is not designed to detect stopped vehicles. For that, the road agency relies on CCTV. But there are not enough staff at the regional operation centres (ROC) to continuously watch every camera (a recent court case revealed that at one ROC, eight operators oversaw 450 cameras) and response times are poor. It takes on average 17 minutes for operators to notice a stopped car and close the lane, and another 17 minutes for Highways England traffic patrols to arrive at the scene – often too late to prevent an accident."

We need more staff to monitor the cameras,

First and foremost my empathy and sympathies to the accidents, as the article states most drivers navigated around the stopped cars, yet some drives were not aware,

Quote:
" broken down in the middle of the road, watching the headlights rush up behind. Most accidents happen due to speeding or reckless driving; breakdowns can happen to anyone."Fictional

The article seems to make the case that the smart motorways need drivers to be more aware and practice safe driving.

Smart motorways are yet another example of the stupidity of attempting to predict and provide. They should end.

Make having a driving licence a privilege not some almost automatic right, ban bad drivers, restore traffic police, and have proper medical standards such as those for HGVs for all car drivers (renewed at least every ten years), and you will reduce the number of cars on the road and improve the standards of others.

Middle lane hogging should carry points on your licence, which if eliminated would increase capacity of motorways.

I drove a friend to Gatwick on Thursday and found that part of the M23 is now "SMART". It proper gave me the willies, and this was mid-afternoon in perfect conditions. In the dark, it would have been even worse.

The thought of not being able to get out of a live lane in the event of a blow out or breakdown is horrifying.

We saw a driver driving like a complete arsehole too, doing way more than 70 and getting right up to people's bumpers.

Notmenono

They don’t all have verges. As a PP mentioned the bit of the M6 in Birmingham where you are several stories above the city and to the left of lane 1 (former hardshoulder) there is a 6m fence next to a huge drop pretty much on the white line is terrifying.

Yes, that’s true about the M6, I know that section. I meant, the verge if there is one. That is the advice if you get stranded between refuges.

I’d quite happily never drive on a motorway - smart or otherwise - ever again after reading this thread!!

Isn’t it terrifying that something we do every single day without thought is so dangerous.

@Curious2021

I’d quite happily never drive on a motorway - smart or otherwise - ever again after reading this thread!!

Isn’t it terrifying that something we do every single day without thought is so dangerous.

It is when you have people distracted and driving at high speeds.

Panorama did an episode on them, it was a horrible watch.

I used to have go on part of the A1(M) which had a smart bit, twice a week. Saw some horrifying stuff, and got ticketed for being in a closed lane because the signs changed without warning at rush hour wirh a hard shoulder lane full of people (I fought that one!)

Heard of too many people getting killed on them. No thanks.

If you are worried about a breakdown, you can read the official advice here. Save the emergency number in your phone 0300 123 5000. And be able to coherently give your location "M1 northbound between junction 17 and 18, I've just passed mileage sign 125.5 / marker post 125-7/ a railway bridge" (which you can see from your phone/satnav) and say I'm broken down and stranded in Lane 2. They will be able to find you quicker on the cameras that way in the rare event of a breakdown. You can also report a stranded vehicle you pass if the lane isn't closed already.

I used to use the M1 near Sheff.
I've been driving many years and motorway every day but I go around now.
It's confusing and dangerous without factoring in the wide range of driver skill or lack of.
No one seems to know what to do.
The potential for chaos is too high.

@NotMeNoNo

If you are worried about a breakdown, you can read the official advice here. Save the emergency number in your phone 0300 123 5000. And be able to coherently give your location "M1 northbound between junction 17 and 18, I've just passed mileage sign 125.5 / marker post 125-7/ a railway bridge" (which you can see from your phone/satnav) and say I'm broken down and stranded in Lane 2. They will be able to find you quicker on the cameras that way in the rare event of a breakdown. You can also report a stranded vehicle you pass if the lane isn't closed already.

Simpler just to have the What Three Words app on your phone.

I suspect that safety figures look better on some smart motorways because people aren't used to them and are extra cautious. As time goes on the familiarity factor will kick in and I fear that the figures may go the other way.

My fan belt snapped when I was on a busy motorway. Luckily I was in the slow lane and could pull onto the hard shoulder. If the hard shoulder wasn't there, I would definitely have died because I would not have been able to warn the lorry behind me in time.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/570967
Petition to ban them

DH went for an interview at the Highways Agency last year and said the staff there are really concerned because smart motorways are so dangerous.

deaths rise

bbc

Yorkshire

Guardian

The time to worry about this was 15 years ago when they were introduced. Not now they are here forever.

I hate them. If I have DD in the car I only go on them if DH is in the car so one of us can get her ready to jump out while the other one of us controls the car. We had the electrics go on our car at night once and that was utterly terrifying - luckily it wasn’t on the motorway, but the lights went and I felt like a sitting duck until they got going again. If that happened on a smart motorway at night I’d be absolutely fucked.

Someone very wisely said that whichever govt. bods have decreed these to be safe, should be made to stage a fake breakdown on a busy motorway with no hard shoulder.

Preferably after dark, and in the rain, with their family, including children, in the car.

IMO it’s going to take far too many fatalities before these idiots change their minds.

As for spaced-out ‘refuges’, a car that’s going to die on you, as one of mine once did, is hardly guaranteed to do it with a refuge handy!

@Zzelda what 3 words is great but it should be a back up to more obvious landmarks if you have them.

@NoWordForFluffy

They say they're safer, but I'd like to see stats for like-for-like accidents (i.e. broken down and hit from behind, either in-lane or on the hard shoulder, depending on the type of motorway) to assess that myself.

This.