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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Salary discussion with male coworker...

53 replies

legofootcasualty · 11/06/2021 18:58

I've been at my job for 2 years.

Male coworker just got hired today and we were talking about salary. He said they told him starting salary was X with no negotiation.

Which is a lot more than I get paid.

I've asked for a pay review recently but been told it's not possible.

AIBU to...not sure what to do actually. I'm about to go on parental leave in 3 weeks so don't feel it's the right time to bring it up. Just frustrated to hear this.

OP posts:
Kona84 · 11/06/2021 21:28

The new guy might be bragging.
Maybe he’s on less and closer you your salary.

I know the feeling though been in job 8 years paid lower end of pay grade, had 2 people join since and they are both on more than me. 2-5k more. I considered leaving and reapplying to get more money

bridgetreilly · 11/06/2021 23:18

Namechange fail, btw.

FlippertyFlip80 · 12/06/2021 02:36

I worked for a company, then left, then came back in a new role. My male colleague was in the original role with me and then also started the new role. He'd been in the new role a year longer than me.

When I came back to the company, I was offered £3-5k more salary. It was because I left and came back. The employer felt like they had to offer more to attract people into the business. That could be a reason why your colleague is paid more.

My male colleague was much better at the job than I was (he thought outside the box more and was more willing to take risks than me) but the company simply didn't reward his loyalty.

SeaSweet · 12/06/2021 07:54

Yes it's often the case that an incoming person will get more than the current staff as they need to pay more to attract them. Same as you're always more likely in my experience to get a bigger pay increase if you leave a company to do the same job than if you stay where you are already. Still infuriating and if you're sure you are doing the exact same job I'd raise it. I'd err away personally from all guns blazing mentioning discrimination up front. I'd wait and see the reaction from them before doing that. I've been in this exact position before and I dealt with it swiftly, made it clear I was angry and wanted to know what they would be doing about it. They then gave me the exact same as the men.

pickingdaisies · 12/06/2021 08:00

@legovsfoot name change fail?

Biker47 · 12/06/2021 08:54

In my experience you have to offer more to bring new people in, but that usually doesn't come with a valid business argument for increasing everyone else on the same level to that wage. That's pretty standard across most places.

LateAtTate · 12/06/2021 09:02

@Biker47 now that Inthonk about it when I was on a grad scheme - the year after me came in on 2K more. The year after that 3K...

Biker47 · 12/06/2021 09:06

Pretty much, the management are relying on the "loyalty" of the current employees, or more likely, relying on all the hassles associated with changing jobs that a lot of people want to avoid.

tiredanddangerous · 12/06/2021 09:10

I've had this happen to me, but it was over 15 years ago. I can't believe this shit still happens Angry

I was told it was because the new male starter had more experience than me, in a job I had already been doing for three years.

Rebornagain · 12/06/2021 09:10

I was going to say that normally when hiring externally the candidate would normally be paid higher than an internal candidate.

Zig27 · 12/06/2021 09:11

Have you seen the job advert? Usually it’s states the salary. If there was no salary stated you should seek Union advice.

LawnFever · 12/06/2021 09:13

Raise this straight away, I had this years ago when someone new was brought in to do my old role as I was ‘promoted’ and then found out they were paying her more.

They tried the old ‘shouldn’t discuss salary’ line but in the end they increased my salary because it’s actually nonsense not to discuss it, it’s personal but up to the individuals involved.

To be fair in my situation the new person assumed I was on more because she knew the role she’d accepted was mine previously and said something about how pleased she was to have started on more than she’d been on in her old company.

legovsfoot · 12/06/2021 09:39

Yep sorry name change fail.

@Zig27 there was no advert, basically he was made permanent after apprenticeship same as me (but I was hired two years earlier). And at the meeting he said they just put him on X pay as the standard new starter pay.

There's no union. I'm just not sure whether to go to them right before going on leave?!

Zig27 · 12/06/2021 09:51

@legovsfoot Sorry to hear that happened. I have found the company I’m working for the apprentices are going from a low wage straight into jobs at the same company for 30k which they don’t have the experience for. I suggest looking elsewhere as they will never be honest and you’re not appreciated.

poppycat10 · 12/06/2021 09:55

@Biker47

Pretty much, the management are relying on the "loyalty" of the current employees, or more likely, relying on all the hassles associated with changing jobs that a lot of people want to avoid.
I'm not sure that justifies paying an existing female employee less than a new male employee for the same role though.

I had this too - there was a male lawyer in my team at work with slightly less experience than I had, earning at east £5K more (and this was around 2003). I was really unimpressed. He did work longer hours than I did but that should have been, and was, dealt with via the bonus scheme (and I worked regular hours due to having a toddler).

At least now you can raise these things, and if the company is big enough, it has to issue a gender pay gap statement.

LateAtTate · 12/06/2021 09:55

@legovsfoot it seems that he’s on the standard early careers programme pay, rather than the standard pay for your job. People on graduate/apprenticeship schemes are generally paid more than is standard for the grade. Because they’re supposed to be groomed as future leaders of the company ...
This isn’t discrimination at all.
Whether it’s fair or not is another story

LateAtTate · 12/06/2021 09:56

*isn’t gender discrimination.
Presumably the rest of his apprentice cohort, male or female started on a similar salary as him

LawnFever · 12/06/2021 10:02

[quote LateAtTate]@legovsfoot it seems that he’s on the standard early careers programme pay, rather than the standard pay for your job. People on graduate/apprenticeship schemes are generally paid more than is standard for the grade. Because they’re supposed to be groomed as future leaders of the company ...
This isn’t discrimination at all.
Whether it’s fair or not is another story[/quote]
She said she was hire in the exact same way.

LawnFever · 12/06/2021 10:04

@legovsfoot

Yep sorry name change fail.

@Zig27 there was no advert, basically he was made permanent after apprenticeship same as me (but I was hired two years earlier). And at the meeting he said they just put him on X pay as the standard new starter pay.

There's no union. I'm just not sure whether to go to them right before going on leave?!

Anyone can join a union I think, but I think you need to have been a member before the issue happened (someone may know for sure if that’s true?).

I think you should definitely still raise it, even if you are going on leave it doesn’t matter you’re still an employee, do you have a HR department?

SummerWhisper · 12/06/2021 10:20

Speak to ACAS first thing on Monday. Gather as much evidence as possible. Join a union, even if your employer does not recognise one. Unions and The Equality Act are the enemy of an immoral employer.

SummerWhisper · 12/06/2021 10:22

If you join a union now you can still receive representation because it won't be an existing / ongoing case. Join one this weekend. What sector do you work in?

LateAtTate · 12/06/2021 10:35

@LawnFever pay does increase though between cohorts. And it’s normally centrally agreed. So as pp have mentioned a specific team might not have the business case to increase everyone’s salary, but they’ve been given a new permanent employee at the centrally agreed salary. 5K is a decent amount but not huge.

If the company isn’t paying you your worth OP - independent of what anyone else is earning - it’s unfair and you should leave. But gender has nothing to do with this. You’re unlikely to win a discrimination suit on those grounds

HoldontoOneMoreDay · 12/06/2021 10:42

Those saying gender has nothing to do with this - surely that's up to the company to prove, rather than the OP meekly nodding along?

He's been hired in exactly the same way as she was, with the same training she had, onto a salary scale that is the same as OP's. This isn't about going to the market place - in fact, one of the pay offs for companies who run apprenticeships (in themselves expensive and time consuming) is that they don't need to go to the market.

And where there's a salary scale, they need to be able to make a case for appointing higher than normal - that's usually based on experience. But the new guy doesn't have that experience, his experience is exactly the same as OP's was a couple of years ago as she is a former apprentice too.

OP, you need to raise it.

christinarossetti19 · 12/06/2021 11:41

HoldontoOneMoreDay exactly.

Even if the organisation didn't intend to pay their male workers higher than their female workers for the same role, that's what seems to be happening in this instance.

LateAtTate I'm not sure that I'd agree that £5k difference in pay 'isn't huge'. In the NHS for example, it's the difference between starting a Band 3 position with no experience and being at the top of Band 4 with over 6 years of experience.

It's also over £400 a month take home pay.

justchecking1 · 12/06/2021 12:09

Sex discrimination aside, I'd be having a chat about why pay progression hasn't kept up with new starter salaries.

Having a new starter start on more than the current salary for someone who's been doing the job for 2 years sounds crap.

In the NHS example, above, if the banding pay for new starters goes up, everyone's pay goes up to preserve the percentage point difference to reflect experience. Surely your job should do something similar?