To think this insensitive and the end of a long friendship

[turquoiseandblue]

My two best friends from uni, one who was on my course and who I suppose I'm a bit closer to but we've all been friends for over 25 yrs it's all pretty equal now.
I got a message from one saying they were meeting the other and could do with a chat as we hadn't spoken in so long, saying that lots of WhatsApp and a few face times given COVID (the last zoom call we tried to set up she didn't want to be bothered with).
I called her to be told she was in fact going on holiday with her children and our other friend as they had a spare room in their lodge they knew they would take and I was more 'difficult' (I have a toddler). I was then told it had been booked over a year ago. I replied that had they let me know I could have booked somewhere near, that was met with a pitying sigh as if I had some kind of problem.
I was then asked if I wanted to come on a zoom call with everyone when they were there, I replied I'd rather not as it was just a reminder that I wasn't there with them and hadn't been invited, I did say this all in quite a light hearted manner though again it was met with another sign.
AIBU to think they are just disregarding my feelings, particularly now they have returned they want to meet up in an area between all of us which they have chosen. This is in fact not at all in the middle and a 4hr drive for me.
It's such a long standing friendship but I have felt very left out on a number of occasions (lonely in a group of three) and I just wonder whether despite being godparents to each other's children and bridesmaids etc whether I should still be putting the effort in when my feelings aren't seemingly considered . If it were me I wouldn't have planned a holiday after lockdown without considering each of them and certainly wouldn't have made a guilty phone call just before I was about to leave for a holiday. Any advice on what to do next is welcome

[turquoiseandblue]

Thank you all so much for your comments it has been really interesting to see the polarity of the responses because in my mind I am thinking similarly, in part about not caring and in another way that they're pretty thoughtless friends.
My toddler is nearly three and friend 1's are 7 & 9 so yes I can see that activities would have been clashing to some extent, friend 2 doesn't have children yet so in that sense it is an easier win absolutely.
I'm not the kind of friend that would have dictated activities around my child I would have just met them at some point when it fitted, even if it was only for an afternoon.
I have other friends in what was the holiday location so probably would have been able to see them too.
I think largely it is the thought of not being considered at all given we haven't seen each other in quite a while (with lockdown) and this could have been a good opportunity to all meet up had I known and equally that it has never been mentioned in over a year.
Friends 1&2 live under 2hrs from each other and I'm 4 & a half hours from the closest friend so geographically they are able to see each other more often which I understand.
Sadly though I feel I miss out on many conversations and am always playing catch up when we do meet, I no doubt will always feel this way which can be pretty exhausting tbh.
I perhaps just have to accept that the relationship has changed and if I'm honest I don't enjoy the dynamic of being the 'after thought' or being viewed as the 'needy' friend which seems to be what it has become. I think if I was closer geographically it would be very different.

[Cocomarine]

@stackemhigh

It’s interesting that you say you wouldn’t have booked a holiday without them... that actually sounds quite stifling to me.

I don't think OP meant she never books holidays without them, just that if she was planning a holiday with one of them, she would invite the other.

Anyway, is OP even coming back?!

I’m sure you’re right - I didn’t mean that OP wouldn’t book a holiday without them. I meant that she wouldn’t book with one, without it being all three of them. And that’s what I think is stifling! 25 years on, to still act like kids in a “3 do everything together” is stifling. She should have a friendship of 3 (which is lovely) but also two independent friendships of 2. Which it seems the other 2 have. It would be stifling for the other 2 to feel that they always must and can only operate as a 3.

[Zilla1]

I too understand why you feel hurt, OP, but on the face of this one incident, their decisions don't seem entirely unreasonable. Only you can judge whether the other background you mentioned leads you to decide this friendship isn't worth the effort or whether the benefits outweigh the difficulties. Not to say you should accept poor treatment but do you have such a full friendship circle that you should stop friendships with people with whom you would have been happy to go on holiday?

Good luck.

[purpleboy]

I'm part of a 3 and I'm part of the 2 that have got closer and we do things together without the 3rd. Main reasons are no one likes her husband, and they lead a very social drinking life, where as we are more family orientated and don't drink half as much, so as a pp said, our interests don't align anymore.
We tried a holiday together it was awful, so we've done a few on our own which are much better, but friend has said she feels left out, we're trying to include her more but, it's so difficult when all she wants to do is party!
Maybe your just at different life stages, we don't like our friend any less, we just don't have the same things in common anymore.

[SwimBaby]

I think saying that you if you’d known about the holiday you’d have booked somewhere nearby makes you sound a little bit desperate even though you aren’t as you have other friends. I don’t think it’s good form to try and get in on their holiday.

[esterwin]

I am part of a three. One woman wants everything to involve all three. I like them both but would rather meet up sometimes one-to-one. I don't really understand this idea that everything has to involve everyone and I would have probably signed too if you complained you had not been invited on a holiday.
It does not mean they do not like you, but it does seem a bit childish.

[esterwin]

Also they may have known you would try and book somewhere close by and this is why they did not tell you. Because not everything needs to be altogether.

[randomlyLostInWales]

I’ve had this “oh we planned this for a whole year” comment from my family - delivered with glee that they’d kept me out of the loop. This wasn’t the first or last thing they did. So now I keep THEM out of MY loop and they can do whatever the fuck they like.

I've had this from my family especially when we lived much closer to them- odd thing is woudn't have ever myself or my children along with being asked wouldn't have had the confidence or wanted to deal with turning up and not being welcome.

There were always reasons - though I never asked they often gave me their reasons- many events found out about subsquently about or just before.

I was hurt but took the view what can you do - if they don't want me/us there I can't change that so focused more on DH and kids.

Did make me look back a bit and think perhaps they'd always been a bit that way - rememeber a DGP funeral where eveyone made a huge fuss of DH but kept asking why he was with me and it is slightly annoying when extended family think its me being distant and uninterested but really when it comes down to it is what is is - hurtful but something to manage and work around.

I did wonder if it was me - as IL have been problematic but many realtives and other people had had problems and many dramas swirl around both families - so step back focus on DH and kids and try and avoid all dramas and feuds by being distant and polite.

So I'd suggest bit more emotional distance - and see if things change again with time and as your DC gets older - perhaps try and keep friendship going less as a group more as one to one or if it's really not adding anythig to your life perhaps let them quietly go entirely.

[esterwin]

People do not tell you something they have planned either because they know you will be upset and can't face yet your upset at not being included. Or they know you will try and muscle in even though you are not invited.

[Cocomarine]

Honestly, I find it very odd that you call catching up when they have more regular contact than you “exhausting”.
How so?

[WimpoleHat]

I’ve just read the update and now have a very different opinion of the situation!

Friend 1 has a 7 and 9 year old. From your mention of a “lodge”, I’m thinking centre parcs, or something like that? And child free friend 2, whom she sees often, will have said something like “Ooh, that sounds like such fun.” And friend 1 will have said, “Come along! There’s a spare room and it’d be fantastic to have an extra pair of hands with the kids.” Which I can see. Friend 1 has a more relaxing holiday, because she has another adult to help. Friend 2 enjoys doing something “kiddy” which she wouldn’t usually do. Everyone wins. Add another person with a toddler into the mix? It totally and utterly changes the dynamic. The older kids won’t want to entertain a 3 year old. One of the adults will feel obliged to hang out with you and toddler and so friend 1 won’t get the extra help/friend 2 won’t get the fun of doing the activities she fancied. I really, really wouldn’t take this too personally.

[Cowbells]

@WimpoleHat

I’ve just read the update and now have a very different opinion of the situation!

Friend 1 has a 7 and 9 year old. From your mention of a “lodge”, I’m thinking centre parcs, or something like that? And child free friend 2, whom she sees often, will have said something like “Ooh, that sounds like such fun.” And friend 1 will have said, “Come along! There’s a spare room and it’d be fantastic to have an extra pair of hands with the kids.” Which I can see. Friend 1 has a more relaxing holiday, because she has another adult to help. Friend 2 enjoys doing something “kiddy” which she wouldn’t usually do. Everyone wins. Add another person with a toddler into the mix? It totally and utterly changes the dynamic. The older kids won’t want to entertain a 3 year old. One of the adults will feel obliged to hang out with you and toddler and so friend 1 won’t get the extra help/friend 2 won’t get the fun of doing the activities she fancied. I really, really wouldn’t take this too personally.

So why suddenly decide they had to zoom OP while they were on their unmentioned holiday? It's manipulative. Can people not see what a status game this is? It's a desperate attempt at oneupmanship. I would have no respect for people who did this. Go on holiday with whoever you like. No need to always include everyone. But be open about it and if you suddenly need a catch up after a long time, don't choose to do it from your lovely holiday place when you know your friend, like the rest of the world has been coping with lockdown and has probably not had a holiday or caught up face to face with old friends for some time. At best it is crassly insensitive and worst they get some pleasure at playing the exclusion game they should have got over in primary school.

[Ostara212]

I think they offered a Zoom call to try to appease/make her feel better.

[Icecreamsoda99]

So why suddenly decide they had to zoom OP while they were on their unmentioned holiday?

I read the offer of a Zoom call as a clumsy way of making the OP feel they were thinking of them after she got upset about not being invited, which the OP rejected. They didn't just call her together and say "ooh guess where we are"

[katy1213]

You are hugely over-reacting.They are allowed to do things without you!
It sounds like they live closer to each other, their children are closer in age - maybe their husbands get on better, who knows?
Surely you do things without always including them?

[stackemhigh]

Friends 1&2 live under 2hrs from each other and I'm 4 & a half hours from the closest friend so geographically they are able to see each other more often which I understand.

How far is the suggested destination from each of them, OP?

Given they see each other more often, you’d think they would make an effort to meet you mid way and not have you drive to nearer them?

[stackemhigh]

@Cocomarine

I’m sure you’re right - I didn’t mean that OP wouldn’t book a holiday without them. I meant that she wouldn’t book with one, without it being all three of them. And that’s what I think is stifling! 25 years on, to still act like kids in a “3 do everything together” is stifling. She should have a friendship of 3 (which is lovely) but also two independent friendships of 2. Which it seems the other 2 have. It would be stifling for the other 2 to feel that they always must and can only operate as a 3.

I get you, but I have a feeling the other friend would get offended if OP only invited the other. Only OP can say though.

[turquoiseandblue]

Thank you everyone, with regard to the distances to the suggested location, it would be four hours for me, 1hr 10 for friend 1 and 2.5 hrs for friend 2 so maybe a misjudged location.
I think 'silverbubbles' is probably the line I'll take, many thanks . I do try to cultivate the individual relationships & communicate individually but it's often brought back to the group chat.
Thinking about it when I have tried to meet with friend 1 she most often suggests that friend 2 comes along, on one occasion she just turned up, so I should perhaps realise that maybe friend 1 is not as keen to be in my company as I had once thought.

[LizzieW1969]

I think you might be right, OP. That won’t be an easy thing to realise, but friends do grow apart. It isn’t an easy thing to realise, though, I’ve been there.

[Biffbaff]

You're not in your teens anymore. 25 years since uni is a long time. Ditch them and move on with your life, you're worth more than this.

[sixthtimelucky]

I don't get why so many people think they're being unreasonable.

They are obviously closer to each other than to you, even though you are all good friends. They - and anyone else - is allowed to make arrangements with each other and whoever else they like and not have to include all 'group members' in everything.

[Cowbells]

@Icecreamsoda99

So why suddenly decide they had to zoom OP while they were on their unmentioned holiday?

I read the offer of a Zoom call as a clumsy way of making the OP feel they were thinking of them after she got upset about not being invited, which the OP rejected. They didn't just call her together and say "ooh guess where we are"

Yes, I think I misread that. I have been on a holiday with some really immature grown women who took delight in phoning someone close to them they hadn't invited which is why I was so quick to judge. I was so shocked by their psychological games and distanced myself from them when I got back. It made a real impression on me. But doesn't mean everyone else is just as bad.

[NautaOcts]

I think becoming parents can massively change dynamics
Different ages of kids, different stages, different parenting approaches (eg thinking the other is too strict/too lax which can make holidaying together tricky)
Some members of a group bonding over shared experiences eg same sex of child, same difficulties with behaviour or feeding for example
So I would suspect the kids thing is a factor

[SwimBaby]

Out of the two women that are closer one has 2 school age DC, the other no DC.