AIBU to expect cyclists to use the cycle lane?

[Riddlemedee]

I am lucky to live in a lovely seaside town. There is a very busy 50mph costal road in and out. It is single lane. There is a substantial wide , well maintained, recently renovated cycle/walk path along the whole route. But some (not all) cyclists still use the road. This is dangerous, causes huge traffic backlogs and the more impatient (stupid) drivers take risks when overtaking the cyclists. I can’t see a reason why they would still use the road, any ideas anyone?

Cyclists are like wasps-a hot days brings them all out

Don't you mean "people"? All kinds of people are out more when the sun's shining.

It's bloody annoying having to jump out the way for cyclists all the time on narrow paths. If a cyclist can't get around then they should wait until they can overtake rather than ding ding dinging. They do it on the tow path here constantly. One after another all expecting you to move out their way (and quickly!). Ringing their bells like their the priority?
If it's shared use then share the path. They're ringing their bell to attract your attention as a pedestrians and get past on a shared path.

With the best will in the world cycling threads on here always end up with 2 gripes:

1. Bloody cyclists using their bell. They're so aggressive. Why should they ring their bell to try and push past? I don't see why I should have to jump out their way on a shared path. Stop with the bell ringing. I don't see why I should have to alter my walk fractionally to share the path with a cyclist on a shared path.
2. Bloody cyclists have no manners and whiz past us on shared paths. It really startled me because I didn't know they were there and the next thing they're speeding past at great speed. How hard would it be to use a bell to let people know you're approaching. You can't expect pedestrians to be on the lookout for bikes on shared paths where there are bikes.

It usually comes down to the same thing: cyclists didn't read my mind and didn't do what i think they should. I didn't want to have to account for other path users on my walk so I'll moan about the cyclists. I didn't want to account for slow moving vehicles when driving or do appropriate overtakes so I'll moan about cyclists.

@BrilliantBetty

Just this morning I was out on the bike and had to excuse myself past a small group of walkers despite giving plenty of notice with my bell, and they all had a good grumble at me about cyclists on pavements (it was actually a track at this point, but I digress!).

It's bloody annoying having to jump out the way for cyclists all the time on narrow paths. If a cyclist can't get around then they should wait until they can overtake rather than ding ding dinging. They do it on the tow path here constantly. One after another all expecting you to move out their way (and quickly!). Ringing their bells like their the priority?

And on roads drivers wait for them until it's safe to overtake (or they should) and don't beep horns at them continuously. Why can't cyclists show more respect for pedestrians. Wait and overtake when you can. We want to walk along pathways without hopping out of cyclists way every 2 minutes.

You do know tow paths were built for horses not pedestrians though? So I think cyclists have as much right as a walker to be there. As previously pointed out the bell is a safety measure to alert them.

I use a bell so I don't make people jump. Also to give them time to grab off lead dogs. If I can get past them fine, and I say thanks as I pass. If I can't get past then I wait.

@Aroundtheworldin80moves

As infuriating as it is, they have the right to be on the road.

If they want to use the roads then let's stop pandering to this minority by creating special lanes they don't want to use.

CovidCorvid
Sometimes I wonder how on earth I manage on shared paths.
Somehow manage to take DC out on shared paths, run along shared paths, walk my dogs along shared paths, walk alone on shared paths and find them to be fairly successful outings most of the time.
The biggest hassle I've found on shared paths are the minority of people who seem to have zero self-awareness and zero (or selectively zero) awareness of other path users.
Eg. People with dogs on extended leads who seem clueless that their bloody lead makes it difficult to run round, people with kids who don't get that other people are using the path, people walking several abreast so everyone else (runners, quicker walkers, cyclists) has to awkwardly navigate them, people who don't see why they should move for a cyclist so even though everyone else has heard the bell, the very important person continues doing their own thing.

What is needed is a multiplane highway
Lane 1: pedestrians, dogs, prams etc
Lane 2: leisure cyclists, escooters, mobility scooters etc.
Lane 3: high speed cyclists
Lane 4: tractors, and other slow traffic.
Lane 5: cars

Both ways obviously. And a way for cars cars to levitate over the other four lanes to park. With enough parking outside everyone's house.

Means we have to knock down pretty much the whole country...

Or we could be more tolerant of each others needs?

@LolaSmiles

CovidCorvid Sometimes I wonder how on earth I manage on shared paths. Somehow manage to take DC out on shared paths, run along shared paths, walk my dogs along shared paths, walk alone on shared paths and find them to be fairly successful outings most of the time. The biggest hassle I've found on shared paths are the minority of people who seem to have zero self-awareness and zero (or selectively zero) awareness of other path users. Eg. People with dogs on extended leads who seem clueless that their bloody lead makes it difficult to run round, people with kids who don't get that other people are using the path, people walking several abreast so everyone else (runners, quicker walkers, cyclists) has to awkwardly navigate them, people who don't see why they should move for a cyclist so even though everyone else has heard the bell, the very important person continues doing their own thing.

I generally don't have problems either. I walk with my dog on a shared use path. I like cyclists ringing their bell early so I can grab the dog. I do try and keep looking back to check for cyclists but sometimes get caught out by someone whizzing up behind me with no warning and making me jump.

I cycle on the path I ring my bell. But also slow down and smile, thank people who step out the way or grab a dog, etc.

But generally because of lots of pedestrians on my local shared use sustrans path I prefer to use the road. Much less stop and starting.

The sustrans path is also about to have a park run on it every Sat morning...narrow path, only just the width of 2 bikes and there will be 300plus runners doing a "there and back" run....so blocking both sides of the path in opposite directions at the same time as the faster runners will be coming back while the slower runners will be still be heading out. I can see that going down like a lead balloon with other path users.

I hate cyclists ringing their bells too. It sounds really imperious and "get out of way". A cheery good morning or excuse me will do.

As for the parkrun, they only last an hour. I am sure the other path users can cope with having exclusive use of the path the entire rest of the week. Is it a brand new parkrun, or one restarting after the covid break?

A cheery good morning or excuse me will do.

Problem is by the time you've shouted that out about 50 times you start to lose your voice...

I strongly dislike cyclists ringing their bell. I know lots of people with hearing problems, and they simply cannot hear a bell.

From a pedestrian perspective I prefer it when cyclists use bells. Much easier to process that as “ah, a bike’s coming up” than someone shouting “Morning!” or “Hello!” behind you. “Excuse me” is a bit better but then implies you’re in the way and need to move, rather than just letting you know they’re coming past.

When I’ve cycled though you get about 50/50 balance of being huffed at for using bell vs huffed at for not using bell so I can’t really blame people for doing either.

Is it illegal to bike in the road in Holland?

Depends on the road. It's illegal on major artery roads & freeways. It's always well-signed when you're coming up to an optional bikepath, mandatory bikepath, or a street where no traffic is allowed except for bikes & mopeds.

I like the main roads that are entirely brick-red and the busses/cars are called 'guests' and must hang back at all times (brick-red is the colour of all bikepaths so pedestrians know to pay attention when they cross)

It's a new park run, hopefully it will settle down once people realise it's going to be on.

If someone doesn't hear my bell then I do call good morning or will wait/stop until I'm sure they know I'm there. I've also got a new electronic "bell" fitted but it sounds like a rape alarm and I'm too embarrassed to use it unless in dire need. I've tried it a couple of times when someone hasn't heard the bell and they don't respond to the rape alarm even though it's mega loud in the same way they often don't respond to a "hello". A bell seems to work better at sending a message of what is coming.....I don't seem to get huffed at but maybe that's because I do it early and pedal past slowly so nobody feels like I'm hurtling past and making them jump out the way!

I've read that there is something of a controversy in the cycling world, where some people think cyclists "ought" to use roads, others think paths are great.

So aside from the practical reasons, some people may do it for ideological reasons.

I think that in some cases there are places where bikes should be restricted to the path, as the road is not really suitable and it becomes dangerous. Especially where the space is tight or visibility is not great. There's an area I used to live near so passed through a lot, great bike lane though also used by pedestrians. But more importantly, a very difficult spot for cars to see a bike, almost no shoulder, and it was difficult to slow down too at certain times of day as it was coming out of a large set of over/underpasses and the flow of traffic was just fast.

But lots of cyclists insisted on using the road there - generally the kinds in bike shorts and swoopy helmets.

@Dutch1e

Is it illegal to bike in the road in Holland?

Depends on the road. It's illegal on major artery roads & freeways. It's always well-signed when you're coming up to an optional bikepath, mandatory bikepath, or a street where no traffic is allowed except for bikes & mopeds.

I like the main roads that are entirely brick-red and the busses/cars are called 'guests' and must hang back at all times (brick-red is the colour of all bikepaths so pedestrians know to pay attention when they cross)

I wish this happened more here.

They've just put a bike lane on an old, but busy downtown shopping street. Lots of cars, parking was on the side which shopkeepers were upset to lose, and busses go down it. But as a main artery they felt that was where the bike lane should go.

But the next street over which is a very short block away is a one way street full of houses. It runs the full length of the shopping street.

Why they didn't close it to all but cars of residents, and make it a priority street for the bike route I have no idea. It would have been better for everyone not least the people on the bikes.

I agree provision for cyclists is woeful, but if cyclists choose to cycle on paths that are intended for use by pedestrians, they need to accept that they will potentially be sharing the path with people who are deaf, people who are physically disabled and maybe unsteady on their feet, people who are extremely elderly or who have learning disorders or balance disorders which means they might struggle to walk in a straight line, struggle to hear you, or not be able to move out of the way quickly, children and toddlers, dog, etc.

As a cyclist you're in a position of power and privilege over those people, and you have to be mindful that not everyone can physically do what you want them to do.

Personally I'm delighted to see cyclists using cycle paths. I've had cyclists smash into me when I was standing at a bus stop (on the middle of the pavement) when there was a perfectly good cycle path immediately next to it, on an empty road.

SmokedDuck I wish it happened more often too. For a year I lived in a lovely village in the SE of England. It would have been ideal cycling to and from work every day but I'd be taking my life in my hands. Apart from the cycling infrastructure here in the Netherlands there is also a fundamental understanding by car drivers of what a cyclist is experiencing, because they also ride. It makes for a much smoother and more relaxed time.

I hate cyclists ringing their bells too. It sounds really imperious and "get out of way". A cheery good morning or excuse me will do.

So tell me, if I'm behind someone when I'm on a bike, what do I do? Because some people think I should:
Say good morning
Not say good morning but ring the bell
Remain silent because they're hearing impaired and wouldn't hear me anyway
Give them a warning otherwise they don't know I'm there.

I have no idea which type of person it is I'm passing. What I do no-one almost to a certainty is that whatever I do they'll criticise me, not because of anything specific I've done but because I'm on a bike and they don't like people on bikes and will simply criticise me for the sake of it.

Oh I agree Bertram, I've been told off by pedestrians for not ringing my bell, but I did stop and explain why and we parted as friends

Bluetheough

“Unless there is a specific by-law, parking on a pavement or a cycle lane with broken white lines isn't illegal”

Ours have continuous white lines and pictures of cycles, for about 2 1/2 miles. They are parked over every sunny day, year round.

Even if they didn’t though, whilst it might not be illegal it’s extremely inconsiderate. I’ve had my fair share of annoyance with inconsiderate cyclists over the years but if drivers behave like this, what are they supposed to do?

I would only use that sort of cycle lane if I was going for a gentle ride and it was very quiet. People wander onto the wrong side all the time.

Generally, if I want to go from A to B, I use the road because that's what's its there for. The sort of cycle path you're describing never seems to go where you want.

YANBU, I regularly encounter Lycra clad knobheads where one is in the cycle Lane and the other is riding alongside in the road chatting away 🤬. If it’s good enough for one cyclist, it’s good enough for the other to go behind or in front.

The cycle paths near me always have pedestrians in and never seem to be swept by the roadsweeper machines, so often lots of debris on them (leading to punctures)

@LadyCatStark

YANBU, I regularly encounter Lycra clad knobheads where one is in the cycle Lane and the other is riding alongside in the road chatting away 🤬. If it’s good enough for one cyclist, it’s good enough for the other to go behind or in front.

Whats wrong with chatting as you cycle along? its one cyclist in the road YABU. I very much doubt you "regularly" encounter this at all, focus on improving your own very poor driving standards.

Perhaps try getting out of your car & doing some exercise instead of being so judgemental ?

Bertram - I just slow down and say 'excuse me please', works well for me, I can't stand bells