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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think we shouldn't have to be with MIL 24/7 in hospital?

260 replies

HamCob · 09/06/2021 22:39

MIL has vascular dementia with Alzheimer's. She is usually cared for at home by FIL who is 83 though recently it's been getting too much for him-but that's for another thread.

She was admitted to an elderly care ward at the hospital on Saturday with a chest infection. Due to her lack of capacity and erratic outbursts the hospital have insisted that a member of the family is with her 24/7. They have provided a chair next to her bed and my DH and his siblings have organised shifts but they also have full time jobs to work around.

I just wondered AIBU to think the hospital should be providing her care?

OP posts:
suspiria777 · 09/06/2021 23:00

@Ilovemaisie

This is normal and expected on children's wards. A parent stays to help with personal hygiene, assisting with food etc. I would imagine this is the same concept.
Parents choose to have children and take on the responsibility to care for them until they are 16. People don't have a choice about having parents, and many people simply aren't in a position to care for a parent in this way even if they would like to.
Justmuddlingalong · 09/06/2021 23:00

How do DH and his siblings feeling about attending to their DM? Are they as horrified by the hospital's expectations

Original poster
HamCob · 09/06/2021 23:00

@Iceybirb

They can't insist. They can ask, and you're free to say no.

Tell DH to tell them that it is not possible, and they will have to deal with it.

Of course we want to be there as much as we can but 24/7 care isn't possible I think we will have another conversation with them tomorrow.
OP posts:
Streamside · 09/06/2021 23:01

You don't have to do this but I think everyone knows that the outcome will be better if you do. The nursing staff can't be with her throughout the day.

feliznavidad2 · 09/06/2021 23:01

@HamCob it might be worth having a meeting with ward manager and/or speaking to PALS as will help the ward get additional support, in turn helping them get more staff to help look after your MIL more effectively.

Ilovemaisie · 09/06/2021 23:03

This is just an suggestion and I am not sure if it is something actually available but it might be that there are volunteers who can come and be with her if no family members can (for example from charities like Age UK). I am not sure if that's a thing that actually exists (and whether covid rules would allow) but it might be worth contacting the hospital and various charities to see if it's a possibility.

Oinkypig · 09/06/2021 23:05

That is totally not acceptable, if it’s the best thing for her and you want to do it then the hospital should facilitate but it isn’t up to you to provide that care. Some pp have mentioned she would be sedated otherwise, that would need a best interest meeting and decided under the mental capacity act/DOLs legislation. For example if the only thing needed to stop her wandering/getting out of bed is a person to sit next to her then the hospital would have to provide that. They would not be able to say due to staff shortages we will just sedate her.

Now, the Hospital/ward might say to her family we are really stretched here would there be any chance a family member could help but to say they have to stay is totally wrong.

Ilovemaisie · 09/06/2021 23:06

suspiria parents don't exactly choose for their children to be in hospital !
Although even though I said it's expected it isn't always possible for a parent to stay so hospitals can't actually insist. They definitely prefer it but they physically can't keep you there if you can't be there.

MrsFezziwig · 09/06/2021 23:08

I wouldn’t expect that the family should provide 24 hour care, but will MIL be less distressed if someone she knows is with her? Hardly anyone who has commented so far seems to have given any consideration as to what would be best for her. Even elderly care wards are not equipped to deal with multiple dementia patients because in a strange environment she will probably need one to one care. Presumably if FIL has been caring for her at home then he can sit with her for a few hours a day.

And start thinking about her care when she comes out.

ConfusedOpenMarriage · 09/06/2021 23:09

She should have a 1:1, usually it’s a HCA, that should sit with her and make sure she’s safe. Generally they’re worried about falls and things like that, so she should have a falls alarm if that’s a concern. Sometimes family members do insist on being there in normal circumstances (hasn’t been possible with COVID). It may be a staffing issue, everywhere is short staffed, but they definitely should not be insisting that family do 1:1. Speak to the ward manager and tell them it’s not possible. She should be highlighted as a 1:1 on the handover and the hospital co-ordinators have the ability to move staff from other wards to maintain safety by providing someone for a 1:1.

JSL52 · 09/06/2021 23:09

@WeAllHaveWings

How can they "insist" what would they do if your dh said there are no family members available?

It is probably best someone is in to make sure she gets 1-1 care if the alternative is she is sedated.

She wouldn't be sedated because she's got dementia.
SinisterBumFacedCat · 09/06/2021 23:10

From Wikipedia In March 2016 it was announced that the campaign had been endorsed by the NHS and that trusts would be encouraged "to consider facilitating an approach whereby the families and carers of people with dementia can support them fully while they are in hospital

Note the word can not must. What if there was only one relative? This is awful.

feliznavidad2 · 09/06/2021 23:10

@JSL52 totally agree.

JSL52 · 09/06/2021 23:12

Absolutely unacceptable , contact the ward manager then PALS if no joy.

Original poster
HamCob · 09/06/2021 23:12

@MrsFezziwig

I wouldn’t expect that the family should provide 24 hour care, but will MIL be less distressed if someone she knows is with her? Hardly anyone who has commented so far seems to have given any consideration as to what would be best for her. Even elderly care wards are not equipped to deal with multiple dementia patients because in a strange environment she will probably need one to one care. Presumably if FIL has been caring for her at home then he can sit with her for a few hours a day.

And start thinking about her care when she comes out.

FIL is sitting with her most of the day. It is far to much for him to care for her at home and has been for a while but he doesn't want her to go into nursing care. We are trying to gently persuade him that MIL needs full time care and to help him get this in place. She doesn't even know who he is anymore. It's so sad.
OP posts:
JennyWreny · 09/06/2021 23:12

This happened to my DDad who also has Alzheimer’s amd developed delirium after a knee op. My sister and I alternated being there 24/7. The hospital gave us a camp bed next to his bed (in a side room). It was exhausting but made such a huge difference to him. Is there any possibility of your DH and siblings taking some annual leave? I hope things improve soon Flowers.

Wishitsnows · 09/06/2021 23:13

So what would the staff do if there were no family. They can't insist you cover the majority of their nursing role for them. I would however be concerned about lack of care and speak to pals as some old people are given food they can't eat or reach or not checked how much water they are drinking and pass away due to lack of care.

ConfusedOpenMarriage · 09/06/2021 23:14

Also, it may be best for her to have family there but this isn’t always practical and family there 24/7 isn’t usually allowed unless the patient is palliative. Furthermore, if she is now in a bay with other patients then consideration also has to be given to their needs too. Being in hospital is stressful for everyone and having someone else’s family member there 24/7 is less than ideal, especially at bed time.

CareBear50 · 09/06/2021 23:15

How awful for you OP. That is not sustainable.

However hospitals simply do not have enough staff, and nurses and medics are at breaking point. The hospital is not taking the piss......they are simply seeking a solution, in the political vacuum of an incompetent government

MrsFezziwig · 09/06/2021 23:16

John’s Campaign:
johnscampaign.org.uk/

Somewhat different emphasis to what is being discussed here.

Production1 · 09/06/2021 23:16

N/c.

This happened with my father. Also quite shocking outbursts. Our family just could not do this for various reasons. The hospital had to provide a mental health nurse/ HCA to sit with him 1:1 all through every night shift.

They can ask you, and maybe they’re trying to ‘insist’. But you don’t have to. You have to think of your own sanity and health as well. They cannot make you do it. You can only do what you can do. They will have to do the rest.

SheSaidHummingbird · 09/06/2021 23:17

Yeah sure, if they want to offer you a contract with a generous salary. Otherwise, no can do!

they have provided a chair - made me laugh out loud. That's good of them!

Bananacocks · 09/06/2021 23:17

Ask them what carer support they have, there are often charity staff available sometimes based in the hospital itself who can offer some support.

parietal · 09/06/2021 23:18

yabnu

it is not the job of relatives to provide 24hr care to someone in hospital. If you can spend time there in the day, that is great, but not overnight.

If the patient is a danger to herself because she tries to get out of bed etc, they need to provide someone to sit with her. a hospital did this for my aunt with dementia (only after she tried to get out of the hospital bed & broke her hip).

Newchances · 09/06/2021 23:24

Unfortunately the NHS is stretched and it is often that family provide 1:1 care in a hospital setting to ensure their family member is safe,content,doesn't fall etc. If family were unable to provide this then it would be provided but it can't be provided for every person. Sometimes nursing homes will send in a staff member if the patient pays for 1:1 care in their home.

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