3.5 year old - at end of my tether please help

[Hugmemum]

Sorry for posting here, purely for traffic.

I am at the end of my tether with my 3.5 year old. Last 6 months he’s turned into a nightmare at bedtime. I’m a single mum who has him 70% of the time and I suffer with depression and anxiety.
His crying/whiny really triggers me. I’m shattered and I’m just so close to losing it with him.
He sleeps great with his dad. We both do exactly the same thing except dad has always being more firmer than me. When I attempt to be firm like dad he just laughs at me.
He’s being in and out of his room for the last 30 mins. Constantly wanting another hug. I tried rapid return one night and spent an hour doing it, he was crying more and more and I was getting more and more stressed and angry.
I just don’t know what to do anymore. It’s not like I have his dad here to tag team him with so I get a breather.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

I would say as you are in your own don’t get into the habit of sleeping in his room to sleep/ it may be harsh to you to almost sleep train but you deserve your down time more than anyone in the evening

Yeah I’d really rather not let that also become a habit. I dread bedtimes now, like having a newborn again. I don’t even want to go to bed myself as I know he will wake in a few hours and it’ll be repeated again.

On Friday/Saturday he went straight to sleep no problems - then back to shit on the Sunday night.

@sadperson16

The adrenalin will be coursing for both of you. Its horrendous. Could you try saying " I'm just going to sit here quietly and read my book" in his room.

I have sat a few times in his room but never for long and he always tries to talk to me or make daft noises. It’s pretty dark in his room so wouldn’t be able to do that. I did try and speak to him about if anything worries him at night but git nowhere and he’s never asked for light in there or anything.

@TomHardysPyjamas

At 3 DS wanted an adult beside him to fall asleep. At 17, he doesn't.

He definitely won't want you to do it forever, but doing it now creates a sense of security in a tricky time for him..

When he was younger, under a year, I got into the habit of staying in his room till he fell asleep, most times I’d be in there an hour, second I moved his eyes sprung open, can just imagine him doing that now

We've got a leapfrog story puppy box thing, you can set it to play songs, read stories and even record your voice on it, it has a projector and a little light, might be worth getting one or seeing if you can get buy one second hand to try? Put it on at bedtime and sit with him for a few minutes, then say Mummy is just popping to the toilet, or to brush your teeth or whatever, then go back to him, then see if you can leave for longer and longer maybe... You could maybe then put this song box on again if he wakes in the night.
Or maybe Dad could record some stories onto it so he can hear his voice when not there
I wonder if he is clinging to you and giving you all the negative problems because he has that bond with you and feels a bit insecure because of the time he spends with Dad and a Childminder maybe.

I can count on one hand (okay maybe two) the number of times in her life my DD has fallen asleep without being snuggled up next to me. She's 6 and has ASD. Most nights takes at least 1 hour often longer. I do quite a demanding professional job and often have to start work again in the evenings after working all day, once she's gone to sleep. I'm exhausted and feel as though my life is slipping away whilst I wait for her to sleep. I could have done so much with that time. Rarely get to see my older Ds before he falls asleep. No advice really other than to say I understand your frustration about bedtime.

DS (nearly 3) has just transitioned into a bed and was doing this. I tried the Supernanny technique and it didn't work for us, either. I usually have a lot of patience with DS but like you I found this issue so so frustrating, I was dreading bed times.

What worked for us was wrapping up lots of small toys and putting them in a bowl as a lucky dip. If DS stayed in bed that evening, he got a lucky dip the next day. It worked really quickly!

I do keep thinking maybe I should just stay in his room till he falls asleep but then I worry he will want that forever.

He won't, though. He might want it for a bit longer than you wish, but it's not like a 15 year old is going to be asking you to tuck in teddy.

I do get that if you're going crazy at the thought of him snuggling with you one minute longer, that's totally valid. But if it honestly doesn't bother you except because you feel it's somehow better parenting to be like your ex, then ... just shrug it off and take the easy option.

They can smell fear!

Seriously. It’s the difference between the strident and confident teacher who owns the room and all the children fall silent the moment she opens her mouth, vs the harrassed teacher flapping at the kids while they laugh.

Try to get yourself in the zone for bed-time: relaxed yet confident. In control and self-assured. Take it for granted he will be staying in bed and doing what you say. If and when he doesn’t - be matter of fact, kind calm and firm. Try not to show a chink of uncertainty or exasperation. Just a calm expectation and unflappable-ness. Don’t respond with anything other than mild surprise that he’s not in bed and only give minimal interaction once you’ve said goodnight.

It will take time for him to adjust, but he will.

I had a sleep situation with my daughter that was causing a lot of aggro, and my friend suggested I spoke to a sleep trainer. I was a bit nervous actually, thought she would be all like "cry it out" and "tough love" but she couldn't have been nicer - gave me practical advice and confidence, and didn't charge for my one phone call I had with her. Could try that?
Sending hugs - sleep battles are the worst worst worst!

Oh forgot to mention - saw this exact situation on an old programme called House of Tiny Tearaways - where mums or couples with kids with a specific issue went to be observed and helped by a child psychologist person - extremely educational and interesting! Vids on YouTube - makes good watching

It just sounds to me like you're your son's safe place where he can let out how he really feels. He seems like he feels he has to be on his best behaviour all the time for his dad (and the childminder), which is a little bit sad (with the childminder it's maybe more appropriate as they're not a parental figure).

When he's with you he is more able to ask for what he needs - which at the moment appears to be for you to stay with him while he falls asleep. All of the things he comes up with at bedtime aren't attempts to stay up, they're attempts to get you not to leave him.

If you did decide to try cosleeping then I wouldn't think he would think it was morning when he woke in the night, he probably thought that when you brought him through because he doesn't think your bed is for him to sleep in. We had to wake our cosleeping four year old at half seven this morning! I would ask him if he would like to sleep with you, or fall asleep in your bed and then be transferred (and maybe come back to you in the night if he wakes). It's a very modern very western idea that children should sleep alone all night, or indeed should be able to fall asleep on their own.

Have you read The Gentle Sleep Book by Sarah Ockwell-Smith? It may give you some alternatives to what you've been trying so far that work better for the type of child your son is.

Without knowing more about your situation it's hard to know whether your 3-year-old genuinely does need extra security and for you to be with him to fall asleep for a phase, or whether he is just playing up at bedtime as many 3-year-olds do. Everything you've described sounds exactly like my 3 year old though he doesn't play up like this every night (but very frequently). I get the one more hug thing a lot! What works for me is saying if he wants stories then he has to stop messing about - so if he is jumping around, not getting his pyjamas on etc I say ok fine you can mess about but in that case I won't read stories. He always wants stories so that usually works as long. Then when I've done stories and sung a song and done cuddles and it's time to leave he gets a story CD which he chooses - if he won't choose and/or is messing about then he doesn't get a CD on, so again it's a consequence which he doesn't want and which I see through if he doesn't calm down. If he calls me back again and again I usually say after a few times ok this is the last hug, I'll come back and check on you in half an hour but I''m not coming back again right now. If he comes out of the bedroom I just pick him up and put him back in his bed without really interacting. He very rarely comes out of the bedroom anymore. Good luck!

I also wouldn't be surprised if he wants to talk with you at bedtime, its a great time to reconnect (which seems to be what he's seeking at the moment). Our four year old often chats a bit at bedtime, it seems to help her process the day. (Conversely I don't find it odd that he couldn't really explain to you verbally what he is trying to achieve at bedtime, it would be a lot even for a much more talkative child to be able to articulate.)

I would also encourage you not to worry that it'll be forever or whatnot - our child has never been an easy sleeper but has had one wake up total in the last three nights (a nightmare about a lizard, apparently!). We used to have multiple wake ups every night, they just grew out of it.

Update from last night
He woke at 1am, shouting for a hug so I went in, laid him down, put cover on and hugged him and left and he went back to sleep. He then woke up at 4, same reason but would not settle so in the end I brought him in with me (first time I have done this) and he kept asking for his tablet and a biscuit (we he usually has when he wakes up on a weekend morning). I told him it was night time and had to repeatedly tell him to lay down and be quiet, I have in an hour later and let him go on his tablet.
I feel absolutely exhausted, I can’t carry on like this. The lack of sleep and the anxiety is really wearing me down.

I hear you OP.Its awful.Can you get some advice and above all be consistent.
I would say,minimal engagement,no eye contact,a small amount of reassurance.
Could you keep a basic chart,dates,any patterns and so on.
Of course you love him but he (subconsciously)is playing you.

Sorry be tougher, he's playing you. Get a reward chart and incentivise, treat at the end of the week.

You’re giving in and letting him dictate what happens at bedtime and throughout the night because you’re exhausted, and it’s teaching him that he gets to decide when and if he sleeps, when it’s morning, when he gets his tablet. He’s learned if he badgers you enough he’ll get what he wants.

Can you afford to speak to a sleep coach?

I gave my advice earlier in the thread but not sure if you saw it.

Just to say ( kindly) OP he doesn't know what is a week end and what isn't.
Be consistent, you are the adult.
Neither of you will fare well sleep deprived.

If there's any consolation , it's likely he'll grow out of it soon. Do you do bedtime story? When DGS was three he'd go to bed but then get up and get me to put him to bed and ask me to lie down with him. Now he's 4 he asks to go to bed and after his bed time story he says night night and happily lays in bed until he's asleep. The morning through...

He has learned that dad and the CM will not respond to his delay tactics/have imposed firm and consistent boundaries etc so doesn't bother doing them.

He's learned that if he kicks off, you will continue coming back in etc, he'll get lots of attention etc. It will take quite a bit of time & effort if you to reset that perception.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

He has learned that dad and the CM will not respond to his delay tactics/have imposed firm and consistent boundaries etc so doesn't bother doing them.

He's learned that if he kicks off, you will continue coming back in etc, he'll get lots of attention etc. It will take quite a bit of time & effort if you to reset that perception.

I just don’t even know where to start with it all

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

He has learned that dad and the CM will not respond to his delay tactics/have imposed firm and consistent boundaries etc so doesn't bother doing them.

He's learned that if he kicks off, you will continue coming back in etc, he'll get lots of attention etc. It will take quite a bit of time & effort if you to reset that perception.

God help you OP.

That sounds very very hard.

I know there are probably slow, long, gentle ways to get him to sleep but you are suffering from depression, struggling and exhausted.

I don't think going gently is going to cut it.

I think you are going to have to become very firm, ignore the crying and show him that you are no longer going to allow him to control your evenings.

Use head phones to block out screaming if necessary.

He needs you to protect your health.

You have to put your health first in this instance.

Can you try a few delay tactics. You know he falls asleep for his dad without all this faff so he CAN do it.

So tuck him in, read a story, then say "you just wait here in bed, I've just got to pop out to the landing and put the laundry away, I'll be back in 5 mins", let him hear you moving around etc. The pop back in, then make an another excuse and go off for a few mins again. He may just nod off waiting for you.

You can turn this around OP.
Get some support.
Decide a plan and be consistent.
I would never in a million years have anticipated the power of a small child to wear me down.

I know there are probably slow, long, gentle ways to get him to sleep but you are suffering from depression, struggling and exhausted.I don't think going gently is going to cut it. I think you are going to have to become very firm, ignore the crying and show him that you are no longer going to allow him to control your evenings.*

I do sort of agree with this. I think he is going to cry and fuss about this whichever way you do it, because kids don't like change. you can either have weeks and weeks of some crying, or a shorter tougher period of a lot, if you want to get this under control more quickly.