To think this is chilling?

[Gorgeouslilgirl]

Students in an Oxford college did what students do - questioned the status quo and decided to replace a picture that is political, ie a head of state. A measured and inclusive message accompanied this.

And the education secretary has waded in to criticise a student body for actions within their own space? And DM is publishing the student’s photo and family home and much his dad earns! Wtf?!

It reminds me of the Middle East or North Korea or perhaps Thailand where people have a photo of their beloved unelected leader as a sign of patriotism or else they are viewed unfavourably.

I mean, really?!!!

It's the reasons why the portrait was removed that need scrutinising.

But why do the private interior design choices of a group of students, expressed privately in a private meeting, which affects no one else, need to be "scrutinized"?

Again: the student group did not make this public. They have made no public statements whatsoever. Every single word was copy and pasted from a private document leaked to the Guido Fawkes website. The only reason we even know about it is because some sneaky little rat (probably one of the other students upset he got outvoted) emailed a private document to a troll site, which then got picked up by the national press.

Why do private individuals' private choices need to be "scrutinized"?

So it's your opinion that every student union must have a picture of the queen in their personal space?

Oh dear, here we go again with the tired old MN tactic of "So that's your opinion / so it must be / so it is"

As a republican I wouldn't personally want a portrait of the Queen anywhere, but if my college already had one I'd have enough respect to ask politely if it really had to be present in what is after all their building

You're being ridiculous. Chilling????!!! Hyperbole, much.

I'm both a remainer and can't bear this Government. HTH.

if my college already had one I'd have enough respect to ask politely if it really had to be present in what is after all their building

I don't understand this.

There are loads of portraits of royals at that same college, which the students did not object to, because those portraits are in public areas.

Students are allowed to choose what artwork to put up in their own private rooms. When this current bunch of students arrived they found out a previous student had stuck a portrait of the Queen up (a picture that hadn't even been there very long), decided between themselves they didn't really like it, and took it down.

Good lord you think the Provost wants students mithering them asking permission to take a picture off their wall in their own private room? What's next, asking permission to change your duvet cover?

But Puzzled there was only one up in the first place because a previous group of students a few years ago decided to put it up. College governing bodies don't decide what goes up on the walls of an MCR - it's got the square root of fuck all to do with anyone except other members of the MCR. If students had asked the fellows' permission to remove a picture other students put up, the fellows would have thought they were mad.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

So it's your opinion that every student union must have a picture of the queen in their personal space?

Oh dear, here we go again with the tired old MN tactic of "So that's your opinion / so it must be / so it is"

As a republican I wouldn't personally want a portrait of the Queen anywhere, but if my college already had one I'd have enough respect to ask politely if it really had to be present in what is after all their building

As a republican I wouldn't personally want a portrait of the Queen anywhere, but if my college already had one I'd have enough respect to ask politely if it really had to be present in what is after all their building

But that's what they did.

A previous group of members decided to put up the picture in 2013 (that's only 9 years ago, so not exactly a centuries old tradition). That group bought the picture and put it up.

Some members of the current group decided they would like to ask the members if they still wanted it up. They did that by asking the president to table a motion asking for it to be removed. He did that, the current members voted and overrode the decision made by previous members who are presumably no longer around. At least I would hope they have finished their studies 9 years later and moved on.

They're paying to use it and are staying there, but actually I think you'll find that space belongs to the college

Yes. But the college didn't put the picture up in the first place. A previous group of students did. In about 2013, so it's hardly a piece of great historic tradition.

In any case, the college would indeed have the right to forbid its students to put the picture up, or take it down. If it were preoccupied with such things, which it evidently isn't. But it's no business of the government, or Gavin Williamson, or the Daily Mail.

Students have way too much free time.

So evidently do Education Secretaries. Rather surprisingly under present circumstances, but hey-ho.

Calling someone ridiculous and hyperbolic when you express yourself with 4 question marks and 2 exclamation marks? That person sounds borderline hysterical.

I don’t know about chilling, but it’s a sad sign of the times that a group of students removing a picture put up by another group of students just a handful of years earlier in a private space is considered something that should be open to public scrutiny.

It’s very bad form of the media to turn it into a witch hunt, but in no way out of character for the Daily Mail.

“ If anything, the rise of woke culture and the denunciation, shaming and censorship of anything/anyone that might make someone somewhere feel "unsafe", to the point of erasing history, has far more in common with North Korea than what you're upset about. That is what I find "chilling".”

This.

but if my college already had one I'd have enough respect to ask politely if it really had to be present in what is after all their building

But they went through the appropriate channels as laid out by the college authorities. Do you not get this?

Removing that picture was utterly despicable

@VodkaSlimline

Why do you keep saying DF? Do you mean the Daily Mail? There is no comparison to the Middle East or Thailand. If anything, the rise of woke culture and the denunciation, shaming and censorship of anything/anyone that might make someone somewhere feel "unsafe", to the point of erasing history, has far more in common with North Korea than what you're upset about. That is what I find "chilling".

I know, being socially aware is absolutely terrible. Btw nobody's erasing history by pulling down a statue of a shitty slave trader, which is now in a museum. If anything, it's the Tories who want to enforce this 'hooray for the Empire' bullshit and suppress any discussion of the darker sides of the Empire.

I wish you people would find a word that wasn't nicked from black people to moan about how much you hate lefties.

@mustlovegin

Removing that picture was utterly despicable

Why?

t's not an attempt to cancel the queen but a decision to ensure that all students feel comfortable in the room

Why would someone feel uncomfortable? There are other countries and other universities where people can enrol if they dislike the UK so much

It’s not a question of feeling uncomfortable. They didn’t want to have the picture up. They voted to take it down. Just like anyone makes decisions about the things they have in their own house.

According to the Evening Standard, one of the students who called for the removal of the portrait commented, 'patriotism and colonialism are not separable.'

That is an idiotic remark , mindbogglingly so coming from an Oxbridge student.

I live in the North of Ireland but 100% respect the right of citizens of the Republic to fly their flag and display images of their politically non-partisan head of state wherever they see fit. I don't see it in any way as exemplifying a violent republican tradition, in spite of my own background. It's a matter of national pride and due respect to your head of state.

Removing that picture was utterly despicable

In the mid-90s, Warwick Uni student union voted to rename their bar the Des Lynam Lounge. It isn't called that now. Is that utterly despicable too?

Removing that picture was utterly despicable

Christ, such hyperbole just because someone doesn't really fancy a picture of the Queen in their private room.

Why would someone feel uncomfortable? There are other countries and other universities where people can enrol if they dislike the UK so much

Most of the students there are posh white English (a full 12th went to Eton or Westminster!!). So quit the racist dog whistling.

Being anti-monarchy does not make you anti-British and it's pretty disgusting to claim it does. My family have lived in Yorkshire since the 11th century, am I less English just because I'm a republican?

@TheKeatingFive

It’s not a question of feeling uncomfortable. They didn’t want to have the picture up. They voted to take it down. Just like anyone makes decisions about the things they have in their own house.

Yup. Shock horror, students challenge the status quo. This was all a handy distraction from Gove breaking the law, wasn't it.

a major newspaper condemning the students, for doing something that is perfectly normal and trivial

There's nothing normal about showing disrespect for a current head of state. And if it's so 'trivial' why not leave it up then?

Can someone please clarify what is so ‘disrespectful’ about taking a picture down?

Or did I miss the bit where they defecated on it.

Most of the students there are posh white English (a full 12th went to Eton or Westminster!!). So quit the racist dog whistling.

Nonsense! We are talking about graduate students. Only about 40% are from the UK!

I'm actually slightly baffled by why Oxford students (students!) decided to put a picture of the Queen up in the first place. In 2013. If it had been 1813 then okay.