To think this is chilling?

[Gorgeouslilgirl]

Students in an Oxford college did what students do - questioned the status quo and decided to replace a picture that is political, ie a head of state. A measured and inclusive message accompanied this.

And the education secretary has waded in to criticise a student body for actions within their own space? And DM is publishing the student’s photo and family home and much his dad earns! Wtf?!

It reminds me of the Middle East or North Korea or perhaps Thailand where people have a photo of their beloved unelected leader as a sign of patriotism or else they are viewed unfavourably.

I mean, really?!!!

Also the story is that a group of post- grad adults bought a pic of the Queen for their common room fairly recently, now another group have decided to take it down.
Honestly, hardly “North Korea” ...

Try going into an American university and criticising their constitution. You'd be deported I imagine. He got what he deserves - a metaphorical cup of cold sick thrown over his head.

What's an "inclusive" message? See original post:

Students in an Oxford college did what students do - questioned the status quo and decided to replace a picture that is political, ie a head of state. A measured and inclusive message accompanied this.

@DynamoKev

Many non-british people would not feel comfortable with the portrait. Why?

I would assume it represents a level of jingoism that I am not comfortable with. As an Irish person, a portrait of the queen would signify more extreme levels of loyalism and lack of welcome to anyone with a nationalist background.

I can't speak for other nationalities who have suffered under british colonialism but I suspect some may feel similar.

It's like the BBC writing an article saying royal source says Harry didn't ask queen about Lilibet naming, who actually cares? Sick of the media and politicians (not just Tories) stirring up division and distraction from real world issues.

If it is "chilling" the writer of the post has had a rather sheltered life.

Also the story is that a group of post- grad adults bought a pic of the Queen for their common room fairly recently, now another group have decided to take it down.
Honestly, hardly “North Korea” ...

This

It was a poster in a common room where it had been placed fairly recently not an oil painting removed from pride of place in an important room where it had hung for decades.

The story seems divisive to me

@SirVixofVixHall

Also the story is that a group of post- grad adults bought a pic of the Queen for their common room fairly recently, now another group have decided to take it down. Honestly, hardly “North Korea” ...

The North Korea comparison is the education secretary and a major newspaper condemning the students, for doing something that is perfectly normal and trivial and well within their rights.

It is intimidation through modern means, no?

@Moonmelodies

Students did what students do - seek attention.

this

And can you imagine how it would go down if a wealthy British post grad' student at Harvard/Stanford or wherever tabled a motion to remove pictures of Roosevelt, Eisenhower or another ex-president from their common room?

If it had been put up by other mostly-international students a few years ago, then they'd have a right to suggest it. It's not an official portrait of the head of state, that every college room must have. It wouldn't be taken up or put down without a majority of the students voting for it.

It's no different from a family deciding to have a picture of the Queen in their house, and later deciding to take it down.

FWIW, if I'd been one of the graduate students in that MCR, I would probably have voted against the motion to remove that picture. Mainly because it's the sort of empty gesture that makes people think they're doing something when they're actually not. But it shouldn't be treated as national news.

@DynamoKev

Many non-british people would not feel comfortable with the portrait. Why?

Also, given the recent revelations about the royal family's hiring practices regarding, as they phrased it, "coloured immigrants or foreigners", their refusal to say when this stopped, and their ongoing exemption from discrimination laws (an exemption sought by them under queen's consent), ethnic minorities may not be too enamoured with a portrait of the queen either.

Yes, it is chilling. I also find it interesting to see what Tory ministers get involved in... Many of them are status quo, symbolic kind of issues, on more important things, such as dangerous cladding or school meals they are pretty silent and negligent.

Williamson has pretty much done F. all effective for education. Getting involved in tokenistic student politics seems about all he's capable of

Gavin Williamson is an arse. Does anybody really think he is doing a good job?

@PelvicFloorTrauma

Try going into an American university and criticising their constitution. You'd be deported I imagine. He got what he deserves - a metaphorical cup of cold sick thrown over his head.

I studied in a top American university and critiqued parts of their constitution. It was part of studying constitutional law.

Contrary to being deported, I was awarded a PhD.

Certainly the NY times or Washington Post or the US education secretary didn’t give a flying fuck. It is a democracy and students st are expected to question the status quo.

It’s not like he went to number 10 and removed paintings there, is it?

Load of attention seekers really.
If at least one hadn't gone running off to wherever no one would know.

🤣😂🤣😂At a 25 year old man referred to as a kid. Can you explain when they turn into adolescents/teens and finally adults? Maybe I'm not nuts and I really am still a kid 🤣

The North Korea comparison is the education secretary and a major newspaper condemning the students, for doing something that is perfectly normal and trivial and well within their rights.

Your example is nothing like North Korea, what is wrong with you.

Lots of people are focusing on the wrong details here. Its not about how old this man was, or his nationality. It's about the government wading into situations where they have absolutely no jurisdiction.

I do find it chilling when Gavin Williamson thinks he gets to decide that anyone SHOULD display a portrait of the queen. (Fwiw I love the queen! It makes me sad that I'm not sure our monarchy will last another generation. But even I don't have a portrait up in my front room!)

@VodkaSlimline

Why do you keep saying DF? Do you mean the Daily Mail? There is no comparison to the Middle East or Thailand. If anything, the rise of woke culture and the denunciation, shaming and censorship of anything/anyone that might make someone somewhere feel "unsafe", to the point of erasing history, has far more in common with North Korea than what you're upset about. That is what I find "chilling".

agreed !

Try going into an American university and criticising their constitution. You'd be deported I imagine.

No, you wouldn't. Joe McCarthy is dead.

American students often criticize aspects of their constitution. If they are taking courses on government and politics they may do so as part of their course. Otherwise, they may in particular criticize the Second Amendment that (as commonly interpreted) puts them at serious risk of being shot.

And you're making it sound as though one foreigner walked into an-overwhelmingly British setting and pressed the Brits there to remove the picture. Actually, well over half of Oxford postgraduate students are from overseas.

@ViceLikeBlip

Lots of people are focusing on the wrong details here. Its not about how old this man was, or his nationality. It's about the government wading into situations where they have absolutely no jurisdiction.

I do find it chilling when Gavin Williamson thinks he gets to decide that anyone SHOULD display a portrait of the queen. (Fwiw I love the queen! It makes me sad that I'm not sure our monarchy will last another generation. But even I don't have a portrait up in my front room!)

Agree!

I think people are skirting the topic because they know it is indefensible. But it is dear to their xenophobic hearts. They are probably leave voters I imagine 😃

no i dont find it chilling , if this kid actually spent more time devoting his time to studying which is what is presumed hes there to bloody do then meddling about with his woke agenda because he doesnt like the queens picture because of this colonial bullshit then he wouldnt be having his picture , name and all the rest of it plastered all over the daily mail would he ?

Try going into an American university and criticising their constitution.

And just to add - the First Amendment of that very constitution gives you the right to do so!

"... the poor kid must be feeling violated and scared..."

The "poor kid" has been an adult for 8 years. And whilst yes; I can agree on the violated part - I expect that rather than feeling scared, he's triumphant about having got the attention/publicity for himself (not Magdalen) that he was seeking.

I have no feelings one way or another as to having a portrait of the Queen on anyone's wall. But Magdalen is a college founded by one of the Queen's direct ancestors (Lady Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henry VII). Maybe they ought to change its name? Erase its entire history? After all, her machinations led to bloodshed and the deaths of many who had little choice but to join their future King's army...

Where does this attempt to change, or re-write history to suit the narratives of those barely old enough to tie their own shoelaces, end? Is everything pre-1990 to be written away? Decried as unsuitable for edification?

Portrait of the Queen, or not... it could be worse. It could be a portrait of Boris Johnson! Or Nigel Farage! Or Tony Blair! Who would you rather there be a portrait of instead, OP? This "poor kid", whose moment of triumph has landed him in the news of a country which he is merely visiting on a student visa? Don't for one second kid yourself that this has been anything other than an entitled student's self-righteous view on the world.

They'll be calling for Kit Marlowe's supposed portrait to be done away with next...

@VodkaSlimline

Do you mean this? www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9667433/American-scholar-tabled-motion-cancel-Queen.html

The rise of cancel culture is very much in the public interest, as is highlighting the naivety and hypocrisy of those who seek to erase history and force the rest of us to have only what they approve.

The thing that is “cancel culture” is a national newspaper naming and inciting hatred towards students who voted to take down a picture from the wall of their own social space.

Some bizarre posts on this thread. Really makes me worry what the newspaper culture war bullshit is doing to people’s brains

@VodkaSlimline

We are a democracy but we are also a monarchy. If this privileged American kid has such a problem with that maybe he should have stayed in the US.

Of course YANBU OP.

Add a bit of xenophobia to this toxic mix. How sinister.