To ask for foreign language teaching resources for a 4 yo who can't read?

[Draineddraineddrained]

My 4yo girl is currently extremely avoidant of anything that smacks of reading and writing - she doesn't even really like drawing. Not sure why this is, she was a very early speaker, uses language confidently and well, loves stories and is generally quite bright (in my obviously biased opinion) - it's not that she tries and fails at literacy, she just absolutely will not try. She even started shunning being read to for a while when I tried to introduce a bit of letter/word recognition into that, so I stopped as I think it's so important for kids to be read to.

I'm not going to push her - Preschool isn't worried, she's only 4, and I know she's got the ability once she gets past whatever is putting her off.

In the meantime, she spends a lot of time playing with figures and dolls and pretend play, which is grand except I can't help but feel it's a bit of a waste of time in terms of developing her and challenging her mind. I'm aware of the incredible learning potential for kids' brains at this age and want her to get the most from rhat (without being a massive hot house parent!)

She has an excellent aural memory, remembers conversations we had months ago word for word and randomly comes out with things from them, remembers lyrics for songs and big chunks of dialogue from films she's watched only once or twice etc. So I was thinking something she might enjoy would be beginning to learn another language.

I have a bit of Spanish and have taught her some basic words but it's not very structured or engaging. I have tried to find a good "game" based language learning resource for her but they all seem (like Duolingo) to require you to be able to read/write the new words rather than just retain and pronounce them - which I know will switch her off immediately.

Something like Lingokids would be great but that seems to be for reaching English as a foreign language - can't find anything similar teaching a different language to English speaking children.

Any ideas??

In many countries children aren't expected to read until about 6 so don't worry. How about changing the language on a cartoon if you have Netflix or similar? My dd used to watch a cartoon quite happily in French although I am not sure she actually learnt anything!

", she spends a lot of time playing with figures and dolls and pretend play, which is grand except I can't help but feel it's a bit of a waste of time in terms of developing her and challenging her mind"

YABVU for thinking that play is a waste of time. It is vital for children's development.

Kids programmes in Spanish ? Dora? Try YouTube.

My DD watched prog in French as a child - Dora, Caillou, Petit Ours Brun among others. Great for understanding.

Muzzy by the BBC is a cartoon for kids to learn languages

@Sometimesonly that's a great idea! She's heavy into The Lion King/The Lion Guard right now and loves the Swahili catchphrases the main characters have, so the telly might be the way in - she'd sit and watch that clown placeholder thing they used to have if it gave her more screen time 😆🤦‍♀️

Third vote here for watching children’s programmes in another language. Might not be very structured, but I’m not sure that’s a problem at this age.

You say you aren't going to push her but you are the epitome of a pushy parent. Imaginary play is how children process and make sense of their experiences. Why not play with her if that's what she enjoys?

My dd used to watch a cartoon quite happily in French although I am not sure she actually learnt anything!

Probably not! In Scotland the BBC had children’s programmes like Postman Pat and Fireman Sam voiced in Gaelic when DS was small. Discussion at toddler group was not so much that our kids didn’t learn any Gaelic but the would sit and watch these programmes quite contentedly whilst not understanding a word of it.

I think the only language learning resource for a child that age is a teacher who speaks the language and can interact with them.

There are a couple of language learning apps out there for toddlers that I've found. Lingupingu (iPad only) is ok, and Gus on the Go (any platform) is good. Neither has any writing in it, both have free bits you can test before buying.

There's also an app called Studycat, which is very good but only affordable on a Kindle Fire for some odd reason. You can get the first two levels for free on any platform though. It does do some writing in some of the games, but there are plenty without, and it's definitely the best for learning, e.g. it gets them recording themselves saying words and then uses them in a game.

Spanish is a more common language to learn than the one my DC are learning so there may be other apps out there too.

@Frenchfancy YABVU to ignore the second half of my sentence 🙄 I am well aware of the importance of play, she went to a play based nursery where there was no structured activities or "table time", all she did for 3.5 years was exactly what interested her for as long as she liked, mostly out of doors. She is now approaching school age and will be expected to learn according to a preset scheme. I am not bothered how quickly she hits those milestones as I know she'll get there in her own time, but I DO want her to be equipped with the skills for learning, and to get some long term benefit from the current plasticity of her brain. It's not like I'm tiger mom here. I value play. I play WITH her. That's why I'm looking for a play based way to engage her with learning.

@Waspsarearseholes and another one 🙄 I play with her literally all the time. At the moment, from the minute she wakes up, I have to be Bunga the honey badger and she is Fuli the cheetah, who usually has some sort of paw injury that needs dealing with, or hunting antelope together, all the livelong day until I beg for mercy 🤣 her favourite part of the day is bedtime when I get into bed with her and tell her made up stories - I do one, then we do one together, then she does one. Every night. I have done so many "shows" with ruddy Anna and Elsa dolls I could run a Broadway production. I spend ages with her making tiny clothes for hand size figurines with molded limbs out of felt. Believe me, I play with her!! I just want her to continue to develop and to stretch herself. The pretend games are extremely repetitive, she loves repetition and will get into a comfort zone and then not shift from it. It is surely partly my job to make sure she is exposed to new things so that she doesn't stagnate. Should I not have sent her for swimming lessons because she hadn't specifically asked for them? Was that being "pushy" too?

I don’t think this is a good idea. My DS went to preschool in an extremely pushy country where he was taught a second language (with a different character set) from the age of 3 as well as English. When we moved back to the UK aged 6, they said his reading and writing in English was behind but I continued on with the other language as well. As soon as I stopped, his reading and writing in English improved massively. He could also do maths In the other language with no Arabic numerals. It was amazing but pointless. He is now 10 and all that knowledge has gone. Let your child play. HTH.

@CecilyP

I think the only language learning resource for a child that age is a teacher who speaks the language and can interact with them.*

You're probably right! There is a German Saturday school locally but only from 6. A German and French kinder too but I've kind of missed the boat as that was 3-6 and she's that close to starting school now!

This may sound bonkers but she utterly loves grown ups and having their attention - I wonder if a tutor, or just a native speaker with a DBA who could chat to her in a language whilst playing, might be worth the money? Although now I've probably reached peak pushy according to some on here.

@CrabbyCat fantastic thanks, will look into!

My son is younger but attends a bilingual nursery - they don't actively teach other languages but half the staff only talk in English and half only talk French. They have songs/story time in both languages. We only speak English at home but he recognises French words (for example, the parts of the body) so just having someone who can speak another language and play with her etc might be a way forward? I can imagine there might be foreign students etc looking for a job?

@Lostlemuria that's really interesting! Everything I read suggests that true bilingual children tend to acquire language a bit more slowly as learning both at once, but that their ability to learn both languages after a certain point is enhanced. Never occurred to me that at this age it might damage her English skills. Worth bearing in mind! Thank you!

I would like to add this is not something where I propose to stand over her while making her recite French verbs - I'm just looking to offer her some sort of game/viewing experience that offers her some vocab. I mean if I'm not going to get heavy with her about learning to write her own name, why on earth would I about being able to say "apple" in three languages? It's literally just looking for something that will engage her brain in a way that's constructive, especially when having screen time.

I'm amazed how many people are seeing this as pushy, given that I know there are parents doing reward charts for learning sight words, doing out of school maths with their preschoolers, and already have them enrolled in a range of sports and other clubs - at 4!! - and all I'm trying to do is find a fun way for her to learn something in a way that plays to her existing strengths and interests.

@mynameiscalypso

That's a good idea. We live near (and work at) a university with s lot of international students - now restrictions are easing it might work really well to get a nice friendly student who likes kids in to play with her some mornings while I keep an ear out and get on with the baby. She would love it if they clicked - absolutely relishes and thrives on one to one attention!

I'm amazed how many people are seeing this as pushy, given that I know there are parents doing reward charts for learning sight words, doing out of school maths with their preschoolers, and already have them enrolled in a range of sports and other clubs - at 4!!

Maybe that’s your problem, you’re comparing yourself to really pushy parents.

I don’t know anyone doing all those things with pre schoolers, I would relax and not force it. Bilingual kids are bilingual because their parents speak to them in 2 languages at home all the time, not because they are taught a language at 4. Trust me, I was brought up by 2 parents who both spoke a different language to each other and to me.

I am a primary teacher and one of my specialties is French.
I use games/songs with the little ones, lots of repetition. With my own children, I tend to say something in English then French or talk to them in French so they get used to it.
I just do a few mins here and there though.

If you're looking for resources in English too then both CBeebies numberblocks and alphablocks are really good. If she's allowed tablet time there are a wide variety of apps for both numeracy and literacy for this age range. My LO who is a similar did reading eggs during the lockdowns.

@ifchocolatewerecelery

Thank you, good suggestions! Yes, there is s bit too much tablet time, especially since her baby sister arrived 😆 She is much keener on maths and likes the Numberblocks games. But anything smacking of literacy she sniffs out immediately and shuns! Left to her own devices she'd play Doc McStuffin's Baby Doll Hospital for hours at s time though which makes my brain melt it's so bad. No idea how she even found it!

She sounds wonderful and you sound to be doing an excellent job but I think you're worrying too much.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if she's picked up from books and TV that you learn letters at school - my hunch is she's refusing because it doesn't fit her mental model of who teaches reading when. I have a vivid memory of utterly refusing ladybird flashcards when I was small (including hiding behind the bed to avoid looking). Honestly it didn't hold me back.

Plasticity of the brain works two ways - she might pick up words in a language quickly but if she can't use it for anything she will forget it again. Hearing and learning lots of different speech sounds is great so you could look for songs and rhymes in a variety of languages and you could try watching Frozen in Spanish and learning the songs and names if she enjoys it but that's as far as I would go. Unless she has a relative or very close friend who speaks another language it's going to be a huge wasted effort trying to make her learn properly.

Being bilingual or multilingual does have its advantages. Children tend to concentrate more, have good memory and it aids in cognition.

In terms of writing or drawing. Don't worry too much. The main thing is her storytelling skills at the moment. They sound great. You can maybe get her to record her stories on an app or on camera. You could write up the stories for her so that she sees it being modelled and then you could read it back to her etc. It may engage her and encourage her to mark make herself (squiggly lines are fine). It's about context. Shopping lists, to do lists, cards etc.

You're probably doing all this.

Language teacher here
Songs and games are your friends here
A lot of stuff on YouTube
You can get fairy stories in Spanish on thespanishexperiment.com. There's free content but if you pay you get video as well as audio (it's not much it's only cheap)
The youngest I've taught is about that age. I don't really use apps as the parents pay me for my teaching skills. I do lots of interaction and games with them.
You might find that an interest in Spanish may eventually lead to an interest in reading and writing because, once you've grasped the vowels, it's pretty much phonetic, certainly more so than English. I often find little ones can read more words /bigger words in Spanish than they can in English and this sparks am interest

@deplorabelle and @WarOnWoman those are great ideas, thank you! Will definitely try writing her stories for her and see if she'll do the pictures. Something I realised recently is she never actually sees me reading myself, because when she's awake I'm always ruddy playing with her or doing jobs - save it for my leisure time. So if she never sees me doing it, how will she know it's a worthwhile activity? Might start a silent reading half hour each day...