Teacher leaving the room

[villageprimary]

Looking to find out if this is normal as I don't have other experiences to compare to...
My DC goes to a v small rural comprehensive primary school with just one class ranging from Reception to 11yr olds. There are 2 classrooms, but they don't always divide up.
DC (Yr2) has told me that they (the class, sometimes half the class, sometimes all) are 'often' in the classroom without a member of staff for reasonably prolonged periods of time (approx 20mins). There is 1 teacher and 1TA min in the building at all times, sometimes 2TA... I was surprised that they are alone in the classroom for any length of time as I don't remember this happening when I was at school, other than for the odd moment when they'd go get the tv or projector or something like that.. but I know that was a loooooong time ago!
I only heard about this as my DC was telling me about some of the kids mucking about and I asked what the teacher said, but teacher wasn't there.
So AIBU to think it's normal to have at least one member of staff in a primary classroom the vast majority of the time, or is this normal, or is this an inevitability in a 1 class school where a teacher has to prepare lessons for such an age range?

Why are people so scared of emailing headteachers?! Mumsnet can’t tell you what is happening, the head can and should. I’ve written to our head quite a few times and he has always been very quick to respond and helpful.

“Dear headteacher, please can you clarify for me what the arrangements are for supervising the children throughout the school day? I’ve been told that the children are frequently left to work with no adult in the room, sometimes for long periods of time. I’m sure that this cannot be correct but I would be grateful for some reassurance and your clarification as to whether someone is the children are always supervised. Many thanks. Regards, parent”

One teacher in the whole school?

@Lullabymummy17

Primary school children should never be left unattended. Pregnant or not the teacher should have shouted for another teacher. Serious safeguarding issue.

Meanwhile, back in the real world...

WTAF has happened to the children in the U.K. that they can't be left in a classroom for 5 minutes??

@Skysblue I wouldnt say people are afraid but not all head teachers are very accommodating and will listen to their staffs word. I'd say if there wasn't a reasonable explanation then the head needs to be informed. Its giving the teacher a chance to explain. I'm sure if a child did something wrong you would ask them what happened before you started asking others?

@AlmostSummer21 have you ever taught a class of 30 6year olds?! I work in an inner city school with a lot of behavioural issues. There's no way on this earth I would leave them alone for 5 minutes. I'm not saying this is the same in this school but it's a teachers job to supervise at all times. Even that one perfect child could have an accident... then where do you stand?! Oh yeah, in front of the board of governors, ofsted and probably losing your job or at least any trust of parents and staff.

As a 'top junior' in the early 1970s, I often looked after the bottom infants class when the teacher had to go somehere. No TAs in those days, just 10 year old me and my best friend and a room full of 36 four and five year olds. We absolutely loved it, but my blood now runs cold at the thought of all the 'what ifs'...
When I started teaching primary (still no TAs), if we needed to pop to the bander machine (pre-photocopiers!) , or to get something from the stock cupboard, or to nip to the loo before playground duty, we would tell the class we were popping out, remind them to be on best behaviour, then tell the next door class teacher and ask them to listen out. Usually s/he would stand in the corridor to keep an eye on both classes, but some of my proudest moments were returning to find my class all silently hard at work with the next door teacher teaching their own class.
Nowadays, I would NEVER leave a class alone, or even a couple of kids in a room without an adult (something else we often did - finishing work or tidying the teacher's desk while we nipped to get a drink). I actually think it is probably to the detriment of children's independence and self- regulation, in the same way helicopter parenting can be, but the potential consequences are too horrible to contemplate.
I would ask the teacher directly, not involve anyone else, then see if your child reports it as an ongoing problem.

In my school (secondary) it would be s disciplinary offence to leave a class unsupervised in à classroom. Highly unprofessional at the very least.

@modgepodge

This really seems unlikely. I teach extremely well behaved year 5-6 girls and occasionally have to dash out to the loo or photocopier. I shouldn’t really but sometimes there isn’t much choice. I’m never gone more than 2-3 minutes, and I tell the kids I’m leaving and check what they’d do if the fire alarm goes off while I’m gone. There’s no way I’d wander off for 20 minutes without telling them, even less so if they were younger. You say there’s 2 classrooms - are they adjoining? Could it be the teacher is in the one next door with a group, with the door open and sight of the class or at least able to hear them and popping their head in every few mins?

You should not be leaving them at all, 2 or 3 minutes is all it takes for a little one to put something in their mouth and choke on it. I am seriously shocked that you do not do your printing prep before your lesson starts, and surely you can wait an hour before needing the toilet?

I know of a teacher who was sacked because he left the room for a minute to collect something from another room and an idiot student he was teaching deliberately caused himself harm.

This was secondary and he was quite senior, and had worked there for years and years.

I find it very hard to believe the kids are left for 20 minutes and there must be a reasonable explanation, i.e. teacher is literally just outside the door or is in the room but your child doesn't notice.

When entering a class if teacher is in the class then the children are outside the class for a short time or vice versa.

I was class informed me the other day that they knew what to do if the fire alarm went off whilst I was having a coffee break! As if!
My classroom is next to the copier so I sometime pop to get printing but I can't leave mine for more than a minute or so anyway.
Children are not reliable witnesses!

Sorry- that didn't quite make sense!
Sure you get the gist!

Lots of new school buildings have "break out zones" as additional part of classroom. What is the point of these if no child could get a book etc from them as out of classroom without teacher.

@yoyo1234

Very different letting 1-2 sensible kids go collect a book from a communal area to leaving 30 kids alone in a room.

and surely you can wait an hour before needing the toilet?

Where are you on all the school toilet threads where it’s against a person’s human rights not to go to the toilet as soon as they need to?

@Skysblue

Why are people so scared of emailing headteachers?! Mumsnet can’t tell you what is happening, the head can and should. I’ve written to our head quite a few times and he has always been very quick to respond and helpful.

“Dear headteacher, please can you clarify for me what the arrangements are for supervising the children throughout the school day? I’ve been told that the children are frequently left to work with no adult in the room, sometimes for long periods of time. I’m sure that this cannot be correct but I would be grateful for some reassurance and your clarification as to whether someone is the children are always supervised. Many thanks. Regards, parent”

Because it's stupid to go email the headteacher for every little thing. My headteacher isn't in my classroom, so how would she know why I did something on a random day? Your email sounds ridiculous and would make the OP sound very accusatory. Why would you want to go for a confrontation when simply asking the actual teacher what has been happening?

(Yes, I've just had THAT parent email my headteacher because I apparently had "dared" to make a child cry and had "forced" said child to do all kinds of nasty things. If the parent had just asked me about it, I could have explained that the child had actually turned up in the morning already crying and that I had offered different things to help rectify the issue. I teach six-year-olds,...I'm not an evil witch and my class tend to be very happy in school.)

However, no, the teacher shouldn't just leave the class alone. I'd just go and ask about it. I sometimes pop out because I had someone finish much quicker than anticipated or something else has cropped up. However, we have a full time TA in class and I don't leave if she isn't there.

@Snoozer11

I know of a teacher who was sacked because he left the room for a minute to collect something from another room and an idiot student he was teaching deliberately caused himself harm.

This was secondary and he was quite senior, and had worked there for years and years.

I find it very hard to believe the kids are left for 20 minutes and there must be a reasonable explanation, i.e. teacher is literally just outside the door or is in the room but your child doesn't notice.

This is ridiculous! With young children absolutely there needs to be constant adult supervision but secondary children not being allowed to be left unattended for a couple of minutes?! I mean presumably they all walk or bus themselves to school, have freedom at lunchtime to move around the school without having 'dinner ladies' watching their every move and then they leave school and go and hang out with friends. But they can't be trusted to sit in a room without a teacher present

It was more a comment on the logistics of rules eg if you have a tiny classroom door wide open and someone just otherside at doorway they could be nearer class and keeping close eye on them then a large classroom and adult distracted, what about in a playground supervisors could be very far away.

"But they can't be trusted to sit in a room without a teacher present hmm"

When I was pregnant I had to nip to the loo about 10 seconds walk away and was gone a minute. In that time one 14 year old punched another in the face with no hint that this might happen in the time before I left. There was a TA in the room or I wouldn't have risked going at all.

I work in an inner city school with a lot of behavioural issues
So the question remains WTAF has happened to the children in the U.K. that they can't be left in a classroom for 5 minutes??

@notacooldad

I work in an inner city school with a lot of behavioural issues So the question remains WTAF has happened to the children in the U.K. that they can't be left in a classroom for 5 minutes??

Dunno. Like Scarby9, I’ve been teaching for decades and the climate has changed immensely. I’d never leave a class unsupervised now, not even for a minute. Many rights, little understanding of responsibilities, poor mental health and a low level of emotional maturity are current themes, along with defensive parents.

You should not be leaving them at all, 2 or 3 minutes is all it takes for a little one to put something in their mouth and choke on it. I am seriously shocked that you do not do your printing prep before your lesson starts, and surely you can wait an hour before needing the toilet?

Some of my sessions are 2.5 hours with no break, then I’m on break duty and another 1 hr 15 til lunch, so that’s 4 hours I’m supervising children with no chance for the loo. I think the risk of leaving them when they are working quietly is smaller than leaving them on the playground, running around, eating their snack, unsupervised.

Yes I would print out what I need before the lesson, but occasionally things crop up - super bright child whizzes through even the extension task with half an hour left, you pick up the copied sheets and realise the copier has messed up and smudged half the questions on the last 3, etc

You’ll notice in my post that I said I shouldn’t do it. I know I shouldn’t. But sometimes things happen.

I suppose an 11 year old could choke in the 3 minutes I’m out the room. Next term we are going on a residential. I won’t be in all their rooms at all times for obvious reasons. Something could happen while they’re unattended. Not really sure why it’s different actually, now that I think about it. I don’t imagine they are all within sight of their parents at all times at home, either.

@notacooldad

I work in an inner city school with a lot of behavioural issues So the question remains WTAF has happened to the children in the U.K. that they can't be left in a classroom for 5 minutes??

I think it’s a change in blame culture. See example above with child self harming while left unattended for a couple of minutes, or the child punching another child in the face. I suspect 30 years ago, people would have blamed the children for their actions, these days it’s the fault of the teacher for leaving the students unattended for a split second.

I'd talk to the teacher first. Whatever they actually say their reaction should tell you what's going on.
It seems unlikely a teacher would leave the room for 20 minutes but if it is true you need to find out. I have heard of teachers going in to supply cupboards (in the classroom) and children thinking they've left the room so it could be something as simple as that.
As there are older children there I'd be surprised if none of them had mentioned it.
Talk to the teacher first and then decide if you need to escalate it to the head.

I'd talk to the teacher first. Whatever they actually say their reaction should tell you what's going on.

Yes, absolutely agree with this. I always find it so strange that this isn’t a parent’s first instinct to do upon hearing this from their child. Even thinking of
going to the Head before the teacher is an odd one to me too. The teacher can solve this in seconds but the Head will take much longer as they would have to investigate.

Agree Modgepodge

You see it on threads on here almost daily, how nothing is ever the fault / responsibility of the child - parents always looking to blame someone else.
Incredibly, it carries through FAR too many parents even when their adult dc leave home to go to University. It would make you weep to read some of those threads.