To think I can do a PhD with a baby?

[Psychgrad]

Hi academic mums

I’m a mature student, just finished my masters in psychology and planning to apply for the clinical psychology doctorate this autumn, entrance would be Autumn 2022 if I was accepted.

However, my partner I have been talking about potentially trying for a baby from next summer onwards, we’re not in a rush but we’ve been together for a loooong time and we are both 33 so time is ticking away.

Would I be mad to think I can do a doctorate with a baby? I know I could wait until I finish it but sometimesit can take years for people to get accepted onto it so it’s very hard to plan around it. Once you get on it’s a series of placements and big dissertation for three years.

My partner isn’t exactly a high earner and although the doctorate is paid for, I can imagine money would still be tight (we live in London so when is money not tight?)

Also, we don’t have family in the UK so no free family babysitters which worries me childcare wise as the costs are pretty high, am I right?

Would love to hear from anyone in a similar situation to me. To be honest we could wait until we’re a bit older but I do worry about the risks in that!

AIBU to think I can do it all?

I'm doing a PhD in a different discipline part-time now, just back after maternity leave on DC2 having had DC1 during the application phase. I'm in a fortunate position where it's a necessary part of my job, but my other qualifications are what keep me in my job, so I'm pretty protected.

I would say if you can work it like a job - full-time hours with childcare, and at least six months of maternity leave, then absolutely. If any of those fall away then it would be very very difficult.

I should have mentioned that the psychology doctorate is payed, I can’t remember how much exactly but I think around £23-25 a year. Pretty sure I can get maternity leave too as I’d be employed by the NHS. But yeah, it is competitive so I might just apply and see what happens.

I did a PhD with a baby (and then my first postdoc with my 2nd). It’s completely doable but you must be able to treat it like a job with full or part time childcare in place. We don’t have any family help. I took a year leave of absence and then started back part-time (while also working pt). Dd went into nursery part time to start and then full time.

I would just make sure you are working in some way that you will qualify for mat pay. I was self employed in a consulting role so I qualified for maternity allowance. And make sure you can afford childcare. Nursery for 4 days for us now costs about £650 with tax free childcare.

The only thing I think that hasn't been answered by people who know far more than me is, the cost of childcare in London is horrific going by other threads and you might end up spending all your PhD income on that if you have no other option. Well worth exploring university childcare options as a PP has said but, as much as it 'shouldn't' be a barrier to either child-rearing or academic study, the finances would be the biggest worry for me here.

I did 2 years of a part time PhD whilst ds1 was a baby. It was really tough as I was also working 4 days a week. I found it ok when he was a baby as I would get up at 5 work on PhD for a couple of hours then do an hour every evening. But as he got older it got much harder and what I really needed was concerted chunks of time spent focusing on it, breaking it into small chunks really didn't work we. I withdrew as there was just too much going on. Ds1 is 13 now and I have another child and haven't found the stamina to go back.
I think if your work is your PhD and you don't have another job it is doable but my situation I couldn't give ds or the PhD the time they deserved so had to drop the least important.
Hope that helps

The clinical psych doctorate is not the same as a phd how aware of the qualification route are you? Without wishing to be harsh, you’re extremely unlikely to be successful. And it’s not possible to do with a baby, no.

If you get accepted, there's all sorts of ways of doing these things. Deferring a yr for example if you get pregnant. If yours is a strong application and they want you on the course, they'll help you.
Consider uni hardship fund..
I got a considerable grant from them for childcare/mortgage.

Mine is a doctorate clinical training with NHS placement and I've got lots kids lol I don't see that 'youre not likely to be successful' at all.

Where there is a will there's a way OP

Fyi my finances are a constant worry for me but I don't care. I'm resolute that this is what I want to do and if I have to eat baked beans for four years so be it. Eyes. On. The. Prize.

To offer a slightly more optimistic perspective I've known two seperate uni acquaintances do psychology PhDs with small DC and both passed.

The one doing clinical psychology had two preschoolers at the time, the other lady did a more academic one and had a baby half way through. She took 6m off (interruption of studies) then sent the baby to the CMs and carried on.

I think it depends on what sort of baby you have - high or low maintenance - and that's difficult to predict.

You would be mad to think you could do a clinical psychology doctorate with a baby unless you are going to use childcare. That is a tough course!

But will you get on so quickly? Won't you have to put in a bit longer as am assistant before being a viable candidate for the doctorate?

A friend of mine started her clin psy doctorate when her first baby was a few months old. Her DH was able to take some time off though I think and they had their DC with a childminder from pretty early on. She had another one part way through as well!

On the other hand, I’m just coming to the end of a year-long access course that I started when DS was 10 months old and I’ve found it so hard! You need comprehensive childcare from the get-go, not just for teaching time and placements but for studying/doing coursework at home.

You need to be able to afford childcare (in London that's £1200-1800 a month depending on where you are)

And you need a supportive partner. Not just emotionally supportive but for example will he pick up all childcare and home duties if you need to go to a conference for a few days? Will he take days off work if your child is ill?

If you don't have these two things then there's no point even pondering whether you have the mental/physical stamina etc.

I had a baby halfway through doing a Masters. She went to a childminder at 4 months. I couldn't have done it otherwise.

So I'd suggest it's doable if you're willing and able to afford childcare.

No, I think you probably would massively struggle with the Clinical Doctorate and a newborn (just think about the sleep deprivation and its impact on your ability to focus) however it's still worth applying this year (provided you have all of the adequate experience as an Assistance Psychologist or in a similar position) as very few people get a place on their first application and you don't know whether you will fall pregnant quickly or not.

I think some universities might allow you to defer the place for a year of maternity leave so that might be the way to go if you do luck out with both a Doctorate place and pregnancy!

• Assistant Psychologist, not Assistance Psychologist!

Thanks everyone, especially the positive ones but also the negative, realistic ones.

Yes yes I’m aware of the application route, I know two young girls who got on the clin psych with only one year of clinical experience, no masters or research posts. That might be rare but I’m an optimist, and very determined person. I’d rather be poor and stressed for a few years than to come out of this life with no doctorate. It’s more important to me than getting pregnant actually but DP and I have decided that if we’re going to do this, we don’t want to be much older than mid 30s having a baby and I don’t want to be much older than I am now before I do a doctorate.. I guess it looks like I’m going to do it then. It may or may not go to plan but that is the exciting bit.

Fair play to all you incredible ladies with multiple children and a doctorate, send me the pills you’re on please 🤣

Wish me luck, I’m sure I’ll be on this in a few years stressing out!

Oh and forgot to say that i would definitely need childcare but that’s another rabbit hole I’ll need to go down