AIBU to ask if a Summer School is worth it?

[Raaaadley]

DD has high hopes to apply to do Economics at Cambridge University next year. She has spotted a two-week online Summer School for students who hope to study economics at Uni, which is being run by a local independent school. The cost is £700.

If she attends this online summer school, is it likely to improve her chances of getting into Cambridge University? It's a lot of money to waste (and also time) if it wouldn't make much difference.

Any views would be very welcome!

I think anything that improves confidence and empowers your child will be worth it.Not only that the fact that she wants to study is a wonderful thing and really should be embraced, I think it will be money well spent maybe not so much on education value but mentally and personally,Wanting to grow and learn is totally amazing and full credit is due to your daughter. You must be really proud of her I would be!

Is it geared towards Oxbridge applications? Will there be interview practice? Aptitude test practice? Is it selective? What’s the track record of this school with getting students into Oxbridge? It may just be a money spinner by the school - many independents are struggling at the moment. Most good independents near me offer a generic day for Oxbridge applicants - no where near this cost.

A bit late now but I’d look at the Sutton Trust or Uniq summer schools and see if any Oxbridge colleges are running online lecture series/ essay competitions.

@lazylump72

I think anything that improves confidence and empowers your child will be worth it.Not only that the fact that she wants to study is a wonderful thing and really should be embraced, I think it will be money well spent maybe not so much on education value but mentally and personally,Wanting to grow and learn is totally amazing and full credit is due to your daughter. You must be really proud of her I would be!

Thank you!

Also if she is interested in Economics, wouldn't it be fun and interesting to her, irrespective of any benefits of getting into a specific university?

Conversely she might hate it and find it really boring and then decide that's not the route to pursue.

@D1sc02000

Is it geared towards Oxbridge applications? Will there be interview practice? Aptitude test practice? Is it selective? What’s the track record of this school with getting students into Oxbridge? It may just be a money spinner by the school - many independents are struggling at the moment. Most good independents near me offer a generic day for Oxbridge applicants - no where near this cost.

A bit late now but I’d look at the Sutton Trust or Uniq summer schools and see if any Oxbridge colleges are running online lecture series/ essay competitions.

The online course is geared towards gaining entry to a top uni, but not just Cambridge or Oxford. The school does have a great record of getting their own students into Oxbridge and other top unis. They have a highly selective entry criteria to gain entry to the school itself, so they only take the most academically able students. I imagine that this alone must ensure that they get a lot of students to top unis.

As far as I know, there is no interview practice. DD has been advised that we can pay an extra £100 for an interview practice (for Cambridge)session. I am going to pay for this as it could help.

I will go off to Google Sutton Trust and Uniq summer schools. Thanks for this tip!

I think £700 for 2 weeks is too much. But if you're loaded then no harm. It sounds like the school preying on gullible rich parents.

I would have thought regular self study would be more worthwhile. She can start reading the important books and study guides thereon. You're not going to get very far in 2 weeks. There are lots of resources out there. Does she do economics at school because if not then she can start with the basics and if she does she can ask her teacher for self study tips.

Not Cambridge specific but it will show that she has pursued her interest in Economics outside of the classroom and will give her something to put on her PS. She can expand on what she found interesting about this course and where this led her in terms of further study/reading. All top universities are looking for someone who is genuinely interested in their subject and evidence of outside classroom participation or research into said subject.

Ds did a summer school for his subject which was meant to be a residential but was online due to lockdown last year. I think it cost £450. He was interviewed by Cambridge but sadly no offer due to the exceptional competition for places this year and Cambridge still feeling the knock on effect from last years over-offering. He did however get 4 other offers from RG unis and is predicted 4 x A*s.

If she attends this online summer school, is it likely to improve her chances of getting into Cambridge University?

I hope not! What about the applicants whose families cannot afford to pay for a summer school like this?

It might be good for her own personal development and subject enrichment and help her to learn useful skills though.

£700 for an online summer school? I would have expected it to be residential for that! It's completely your decision, firstly can you afford it, and secondly do you think it will benefit her?

@Ironoaks

If she attends this online summer school, is it likely to improve her chances of getting into Cambridge University?

I hope not! What about the applicants whose families cannot afford to pay for a summer school like this?

It might be good for her own personal development and subject enrichment and help her to learn useful skills though.

This is exactly my gut feeling on the matter!

@dancinfeet

£700 for an online summer school? I would have expected it to be residential for that! It's completely your decision, firstly can you afford it, and secondly do you think it will benefit her?

Normally they charge a lot more as the summer school is usually residential when not in a pandemic!

I feel that I can only justify rustling up the money if there is an actual benefit. I would rather DD just relaxed an enjoyed the summer rather than doing additional academic study if I'm honest. I feel that chill time is important to prevent burn out.

@SometimesALime

Not Cambridge specific but it will show that she has pursued her interest in Economics outside of the classroom and will give her something to put on her PS. She can expand on what she found interesting about this course and where this led her in terms of further study/reading. All top universities are looking for someone who is genuinely interested in their subject and evidence of outside classroom participation or research into said subject.

Ds did a summer school for his subject which was meant to be a residential but was online due to lockdown last year. I think it cost £450. He was interviewed by Cambridge but sadly no offer due to the exceptional competition for places this year and Cambridge still feeling the knock on effect from last years over-offering. He did however get 4 other offers from RG unis and is predicted 4 x A*s.

My DD was hoping to put the online summer school course into her personal statement when applying for uni. I think that it would prove her interest in the subject, but it is a VERY expensive way of doing this.

@ZenNudist

I think £700 for 2 weeks is too much. But if you're loaded then no harm. It sounds like the school preying on gullible rich parents.

I would have thought regular self study would be more worthwhile. She can start reading the important books and study guides thereon. You're not going to get very far in 2 weeks. There are lots of resources out there. Does she do economics at school because if not then she can start with the basics and if she does she can ask her teacher for self study tips.

Yes, I can well believe that self study could be potentially valued higher than summer school. DD does do economics at school and enjoys it. She has started reading relevant books off her own back, so let's hope that helps for the personal statement!

I would have thought that being able to refer to extended reading in her personal statement, and as importantly being able to discuss / show she has really engaged with her reading / looking to apply to current real life situations in her interview would work well. Perhaps some of the unis have reading lists online? My experience of applications is nearly twenty years out of date so things may well have changed a lot.

I agree with what other PPs have said about enrichment etc, but ultimately whether she gets into any specific university is dependent on her A level grades. Personally I'd rather spend the £700 on a tutor and find other (cheaper) enrichment opportunities.

My son is heading to Oxbridge in Sept. We looked at these opportunities but realised that independently working to learn skills is a much more sought after skill. My son is studying law so he volunteered at citizens advice and at a local women's shelter helping assist the public access legal support. He wrote his EPQ on the lack of access to good legal advice for poorer people.
I'd strongly suggest seeking unpaid work to learn, I think they have moved away from privately run courses as they have to be more diverse in their intake. The Trusell Trust would be a good place to ask for suggestions on what she could do to better understand economic inequalities for example.

@KateMuff

My son is heading to Oxbridge in Sept. We looked at these opportunities but realised that independently working to learn skills is a much more sought after skill. My son is studying law so he volunteered at citizens advice and at a local women's shelter helping assist the public access legal support. He wrote his EPQ on the lack of access to good legal advice for poorer people. I'd strongly suggest seeking unpaid work to learn, I think they have moved away from privately run courses as they have to be more diverse in their intake. The Trusell Trust would be a good place to ask for suggestions on what she could do to better understand economic inequalities for example.

Thank you for this great advice. It's so difficult to pick up voluntary work at the moment due to the pandemic. I have been trying to offer my services for voluntary work but most organisations are sticking to their existing social bubbles and are not up for taking on extra volunteers. DD had got a work placement booked in the summer (self arranged) but this is cancelled due to Corona. One of DD's friend's Dad may offer her an alternative work placement with any luck.

Does her school have an Oxbridge coordinator? Could you contact them to see what program the school has in place for applicants? It’s not acceptable to have to pay to access advice, the school should be doing something to cater for her. If she has the grades then interview will be the biggest hurdle, I’d put the resources you have in to that or general tuition for any of her A Levels where she is less secure in her grade. Suggest she subscribes to the FT (schools can get free access) and looks at enrolling on a MOOC over the summer.

I've done admissions for an Oxford college although not in econimics. I would say it depends somewhat on the summer school but it probably wouldn't drastically change her chances. If it's a decent summer school they'll prepare do some practise for the admissions tests and do mock interviews. You can certainly get better at the admissions tests with preparation but that prep should happen over a long time - practising similar type questions will slowly help you to improve. Again a summer school can help familiarise you with the type of questions you'll be asked at interview but it's very unlikely they'll cover the same topics she'll be asked during the interview so really the idea is to become used to being put on the spot and thinking on your feet and knowing what to expect.

In order to prepare for her interview she should be very familiar with all her A-level subjects.The questions will be in much greater depth and require more thought that is required at Alevel so she really should be very fluent and confident with A-level content. She should be able to hold a sensible conversation about any topic she's mentioned on her PS and she should have a decent background knowledge in economics if she's not taking it at A-level but she doesn't need to obsess too much about background reading (beyond showing a level of interest). The interview is really trying to gather how she can use basic knowledge to think in unfamiliar ways not to demonstrate loads of background reading.

In terms of the summer school also find out who is teaching the actual courses. If they just say 'Oxbridge graduates' or Oxbridge PhD students it isn't very impressive. Graduating from Oxford/Cambridge just means you yourself got through the interview - probably four or more years ago. It doesn't make you an expert in the admissions process or any good at teaching. Likewise a Phd student will just be trying to supplement their income over the summer and won't necessarily have any experience at admissions or any interest/ability at teaching. The one advantage a PhD student has is that they will have a certain level of expertise and enthusiasm that not at schools have available.

@D1sc02000

Does her school have an Oxbridge coordinator? Could you contact them to see what program the school has in place for applicants? It’s not acceptable to have to pay to access advice, the school should be doing something to cater for her. If she has the grades then interview will be the biggest hurdle, I’d put the resources you have in to that or general tuition for any of her A Levels where she is less secure in her grade. Suggest she subscribes to the FT (schools can get free access) and looks at enrolling on a MOOC over the summer.

Thank you for this. Have checked on school website and they do have a section on help offered with Oxbridge applications. I will encourage DD to find out who in school she can get advice from after Half Term. I have Googled MOOC and it sounds fantastic. I hadn't head of it before.

Have you looked at any courses on Future Learn? There are some good ones for my subject geared towards sixth formers that I always recommend to Year 12 over the summer. Anything like that will be useful for UCAS. I think the course wouldn’t significantly boost her chances, but it would be a good thing for her personal statement that demonstrates her interest and they can ask her about at interview. I’d look more widely for another course though as that is expensive!!

@InTheDrunkTank

I've done admissions for an Oxford college although not in econimics. I would say it depends somewhat on the summer school but it probably wouldn't drastically change her chances. If it's a decent summer school they'll prepare do some practise for the admissions tests and do mock interviews. You can certainly get better at the admissions tests with preparation but that prep should happen over a long time - practising similar type questions will slowly help you to improve. Again a summer school can help familiarise you with the type of questions you'll be asked at interview but it's very unlikely they'll cover the same topics she'll be asked during the interview so really the idea is to become used to being put on the spot and thinking on your feet and knowing what to expect.

In order to prepare for her interview she should be very familiar with all her A-level subjects.The questions will be in much greater depth and require more thought that is required at Alevel so she really should be very fluent and confident with A-level content. She should be able to hold a sensible conversation about any topic she's mentioned on her PS and she should have a decent background knowledge in economics if she's not taking it at A-level but she doesn't need to obsess too much about background reading (beyond showing a level of interest). The interview is really trying to gather how she can use basic knowledge to think in unfamiliar ways not to demonstrate loads of background reading.

Thank you for this advice. I will show DD your post to give her a better idea of what she is up against. She is currently finishing end of term exams. After they finish, I am hoping the school might brief her on what to expect in admissions tests as school will focus on Uni application next term.