cock/fanny lodger versus family pot

[smudd]

Where does a family pot of money end and a cock/fanny lodger begin?

I've been on this forum for a few years now and I've noticed that some posters whose names I recognise as being very helpful and consistent on other boards (not going to name anyone obviously) are quite inconsistent when questions are posted about household finances. Beyond that the majority of responses on these kind of questions are usually very divided.

So my question is, what do you really think is fair or right?

In one way, whatever a couple decide is right for them is right for them as long as both people are happy. So you might have one person earning all the money...when people post about this kind of thing the responses are very divided between "the non earner is taking the piss" and "it doesn't matter, it's all the same pot."

The reason I ask is that over the past two years myself and my DP have had to make changes to the way we approach finances. We used to pretty much split everything down the middle and we earned pretty much the same amount. We then went through a period of time where he put more "in" than me, which he was OK with but now we're going through a period of me putting more into our expenditure than him. He feels this reflects badly on him and I see it more like we have the same expenditures so it doesn't matter who pays them.

My husband is currently the sole earner. He transfers a set amount over to the joint account each month that covers all of the household bills, shopping and spending money for me.
We periodically review it and adjust as necessary. This month his expenses were higher than usual so I sent half of my allocated money back so we both had the same amount to spend.
I don't think it matters how you do it, just just need to be open and honest about finances and have conversations about it. If everyone is happy then all is fine 🤷‍♀️

I think a cock/fanny lodger is a person who rocks up in to an established household, contributes nothing, or next to nothing, and is generally a parasite. Usually it's a man moving in with a single mum. I guess because services are so poor for single childless men that they feel the need to leech of women.

Mutually agreeable arrangements between genuine couples who contribute in their own ways are a different matter.

My partner is the sole earner currently due to us moving areas whilst pregnant (no one want a to smoky a pregnant lady!)
He gets paid into his account, keeps enough for his bills Ghent he rest goes into the joint account and I take out what I need for my bills. We haven’t got round to changing all the direct debits to one account yet. Works for us!

My partner is the sole earner. His wage goes into our joint account. I pay all the bills, set aside grocery money etc and then allocate spending money to each of us.
Nice and simple and I have the time to chase up broadband companies etc so makes sense it's in my name and I am account holder.
We each have cards connected to the account and can use our spending money as we wish.
We had the exact same set up when I was working and he wasn't.
It's right for us as we very much view anything as "our money". We're a team and each contribute differently.

I think it’s nuanced.

In your scenario it’s obviously just a family pot and waxes and wanes depending if circs.

I depends on what you both want, agree on, and go into knowingly.

One very high earning person with another staying at home is fine if both agree to and plan for it.

What you often have is a woman with children who is a single parent, already on a fairly tight budget with a new boyfriend who moves in and contributes nothing by stealth.

The ‘wake up’ moment comes late after they’ve been rinsed dry and their lives are entangled.

That is when it becomes unacceptable IMO.

I think it's less about how much money is brought in and more about things being equal in terms of keeping the household ticking over.

So a SAHP (parent/partner) that pulls their weight with chores/childcare is actively contributing to the household...although the partner version would need complete buy in from the earner as to that being their contribution IMO.

The cocklodger argument is for someone who isn't pulling their weight for money/household/childcare portions of the relationship. There's an obvious inequality that strains the relationship as time goes on.

My advice would always be based on that distinction. Someone working a 50 hour week supporting a partner who does no housework/childcare is being played for a fool. Someone running the home to a decent standard/providing childcare pretty much solo whilst their partner works a 50 hour week has equal footing when it comes to access to the family pot. The shades of grey in between are the variables that people might need support navigating but there's definite experience bias on here from the financially abused...however that manifests.

@CaviarAndCigarettes Yeah, I think if you both agree or it's necessary in some way then it just makes sense and it's not important who actually earned the income.

I’m the sole earner, my DP does the childcare, and all the money goes into a joint account we both have access to. I definitely don’t view him as a cocklodger! Though I would if we didn’t have young kids.

@fearfulfran There's also the scenario where someone moves in on the basis of contributing equally and then, when they get their feet under the table, they stop. Both myself and DP had this with previous partners, though mine didn't actually move in which was even crazier! So I think he has it on his mind that he's doing that. I don't think he is though, so as far as I can see it's a needless worry.

Usually cocklodgers don’t contribute to the household in any way (financial, childcare, practical, housework, emotionally etc)

SAHP looking after young children are absolutely contributing to the household

Relationships which start out pretty equal financially but then change when having DC limits one persons earning potential for example aren’t usually cocklodging situations.

@Merryoldgoat Yes, the stealth thing is grim. You see a lot of stories on here about women who are encouraged to give up work after having children and then the earning partner slowly but surely removes access to money and starts guilt tripping them over the outgoings.

CL/FL never intend to contribute or become accustomed with not doing so far too easily, they also tend not to contribute time, effort or kindness or respect their partners and are often ‘depressed’ but don’t do anything to improve it and are magically still able to everything they want to

What you are describing is a marriage.

Sometimes you walk side by side, often you carry each other but in different ways, sometimes one does more then the other as needed and sometimes the other person does. It is reciprocated, it is not one way.

[quote smudd]@fearfulfran There's also the scenario where someone moves in on the basis of contributing equally and then, when they get their feet under the table, they stop. Both myself and DP had this with previous partners, though mine didn't actually move in which was even crazier! So I think he has it on his mind that he's doing that. I don't think he is though, so as far as I can see it's a needless worry.[/quote]
Ah yes I've had one too - he told me he had loads of money, plenty to pay his way and then some... but it never transpired. He paid nothing.

I think it depends on a lot of factors such as
Do they have (joint) children?
Does one of them have a job that cant fit around childcare at all (eg involving long periods of time away from home) which means the other effectively has no choice to take a lower paid more flexible job
Does one of them refuse to do things like drop offs and pick ups and taking emergency holiday for sick children etc which has the same result
How are household chores split
If one person massively out earns the other, the reasons for this. For example it would bother me less if I out earned someone but they had a vocation and worked really hard eg a nurse or a carer or for charity. If they had natural ability and could get a good job but just fancied working part time in a low skilled job then that might be different
Attitudes to spending. In the above example it might be ok if the lower earner was content with living in a small flat and not going on holiday etc. But different if they expected luxuries funded by the other party

For example

A sahp with 3 kids under 5 and no family help married to a high earner - shared finances

A couple where one works hard, does the majority of household tasks and childcare, takes extra shifts when money is tight, while their partner tries and fails for 15 years to realise their dream of being a musician and expects to be supported in what is essentially a glorified hobby indefinitely - cocklodger

The difference is children.

If the non wage earner is primary carer for the children then they are pulling their weight.
If there are no children but the non earner does all the housework, home admin, shopping, cooking etc and they are both happy with that then also pulling their weight

It's when the non working partner isn't doing child care, doesn't lift a finger round the house or contribute much of anything at all that people call them a waste of space

@fearfulfran How long did it take you to shift him?

With mine, I was quite a bit younger than I am now and didn't know what boundaries were but he used to order himself things like drinks/expensive food/taxis and then turn around and demand I paid for them! He obviously didn't do that at first though...Still, good lesson, learned the hard way.

[quote smudd]@fearfulfran How long did it take you to shift him?

With mine, I was quite a bit younger than I am now and didn't know what boundaries were but he used to order himself things like drinks/expensive food/taxis and then turn around and demand I paid for them! He obviously didn't do that at first though...Still, good lesson, learned the hard way.[/quote]
5 miserable months!

Theoretically to have a 50:50 split on all expenses is fair. But, couples decide to have children and they have to be looked after, also earnings are rarely the same between both people.

We have the same approach to money as each other which I think really helps. DP was also a SAHD whilst I was a high earner - we were both happy with that. He is a fantastic dad, I was very happy to earn and loved knowing my kids were safe and being cared for by the person I love most in the world.

No we pay into a joint account each month for everything we need (food, mortgage, household bills etc) but we each have our own separate accounts for savings, pensions, shares and spending money. I might decide to splurge on a big family holiday, then he'll pay for some trips or something as part of that. It's really about having the same attitude and good comms.

I don’t think it’s that nuanced at all.

A cock lodger is someone who’s lifestyle is fully funded by their partner, while they sit back and contribute nothing - financially, physically or emotionally.

I agree it can happen by stealth - I mean, it must do in most scenarios, because nobody would accept it upfront.

@fearfulfran congrats tho, at least it wasn't years!

@TillyTopper Right, the idea of being fully equally split is fine but in practice and over time it's not realistic for most people I think. You have to start dividing things up and depending (in a way) on the other person to do their bit that you both agreed to.

@abstractprojection

Sometimes you walk side by side, often you carry each other but in different ways, sometimes one does more then the other as needed and sometimes the other person does. It is reciprocated, it is not one way.

That's a lovely way of putting it

[quote smudd]@TillyTopper Right, the idea of being fully equally split is fine but in practice and over time it's not realistic for most people I think. You have to start dividing things up and depending (in a way) on the other person to do their bit that you both agreed to.[/quote]
Right, but that’s not even close to being a cock-lodger.

I can only speak from my experience- when we met we both earned similar salaries and had our own homes, we sold our individual homes and bough jointly together- we have had a joint account since the day we married ... over time my DH's salary is significantly more than mine, I took 13 years out to be a SAHM (totally joint decision) now I have a very low part time salary but in over 30 years we have never argued about money. It helps that neither of us are big spenders, neither of us cares if one spends more an a hobby than the other for example... I would never dream of 'asking' for spending money ... we are both adults, we know what the balance of the account is and we don't go overdrawn (we are not typical Mumsnet big earners ).

Attitude towards finance is such an important issue ... so many relationships fail if one is a spender and one is a saver. I don't think my DH would ever consider me a FL ... we both contribute towards our family's happiness. My DH doesn't quibble if I want a week away in the sun with a girlfriend- equally I don't quibble over his golf club fees etc.

It's waxed and waned in my marriage too. At one point DH only had part time work after redundancy and I put twice as much as he did into our joint account to cover everything. Now I'm on maternity leave and SMP has run out he's the sole contributor to our joint acc at the moment. It will change again at some point. For much of the time, we've put in equal amounts and I expect we'll get back to this.