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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ignore the phone tomorrow

68 replies

Colouringaddict · 31/05/2021 16:00

My DF has been in hospital for 6 weeks after suffering a stroke. The stroke mainly affected his speech, his limbs are fine but he has chosen to be bed bound.

He has refused speech therapy, physiotherapist, occupational therapy and his medications.

We had a meeting last Weds with his Consultant, who was very blunt, telling us his limbs are good and strong but he is choosing to stay in bed. He is now wearing pads because he refuses to get up to use the bathroom.

He has stage 4 kidney failure, heart failure among other co morbidity conditions. We were told the best place for end of life care would be a nursing home, which we (myself and DSis) agreed to. We were told he would be assessed there and then we would be told which homes would suit his needs and we could go and look at them, choose a couple, and the management from these homes read the assessments and decide if they can take him. He said it was a long process.

On Friday DSis got to his bedside to find 4 members of staff surrounding his bed trying to do a COVID test, he was refusing. She asked what was going on, to be told he has to have this test or he can’t go anywhere. As we weren’t expecting him to be going anywhere, she asked if that was necessary, and was told yes as he was going to a nursing home that afternoon!

After a flurry of phone calls, I found the name of the home he was going to, and made an appointment there and then to go and see it.

It is clean and modern, freshly decorated with only a small number of clients there. Also by sheer fluke got to speak to another residents relative who was really impressed with the care.

I agreed to his going, filled in lots of paperwork, allergies, likes, dislikes, hobbies etc. Had a good chat with the nursing sister and the manager.

In the meantime DSis had talked him into doing to COVID test himself with supervision. Transport was delayed but rebooked for Saturday.

Saturday morning, I am woken by the hospital calling me, he is still refusing to be tested could I go and try.
After sitting in traffic for an hour and a half I got to him, asked him, he refused, begged him, he refused, argued and he refused. He is not going and is staying in hospital according to him.
I tried to show him the video and photos I had taken of the home, he refused, because he’s not going. He got very verbally aggressive, pulled his blanket up over his head, pretended to be asleep (a technique that has worked very well for him over the last 6 weeks).

After 2 hours I admitted defeat. His sister went to see him yesterday to try, same result.

My DSis went to visit today, didn’t force the issue, but when the opportunity arose she mentioned it again. He hasn’t had a wash today, but he’s not bothered, he is now refusing to let them take blood, or do the regular observations. He has been warned he will be moved from there tomorrow, whether he agrees or not. He has only really got to stay because it is a bank holiday here and they’re quite short staffed.

I assume that they will be calling me in the morning, when he becomes difficult, but my presence will not change that, the same applies with my DSis, in fact he’s even less likely to listen to her than me.

Anyone else been in this position? My aunt works at a care home and has had residents delivered restrained in a wheel chair, I hate that thought, but the nursing home really is the best place for him. He only has a maximum of 6 months to live. Neither of us are in the position of being able to care for him in his own home. We have no access to his money to pay for care privately.

I’m stuck, but worried about him.

OP posts:
Colouringaddict · 01/06/2021 10:56

n3wmum20, he has not engaged with any professional at all, initially they thought he may have depression which is common after a stroke, but he refused tablets, and a patch. He has become dehydrated, but has refused IV fluids several times. Because of this they have been unable to make full assessments, so they have had to treat him as having no capacity.

As Mindy said, I believe he has enjoyed being looked after, he has not washed himself at all, but his limbs work so he could have done it. My husband was going in to the ward 3 times a week to give him a shave. He isn’t keen on the hospital food so we have literally run around trying to find him something that he will eat, while he lies in bed and is waited on.

When I confronted him at the weekend, he got out of bed and walked totally unaided, because “I talk crap”.

He is really rude to most staff, has told the consultant he is useless because he hasn’t made him better, I think he thinks if he holds out long enough, they will give him the magic pill that they have obviously been withholding and he will be able to go home. At this point he has been warned that if he does not eat and drink, his body will start to breakdown and it will hasten his death. He believes he knows best, and has been like this for some time.

I swing between being heartbroken on the loss of the man that I knew as my dad, and frustrated with this new person, who pretends to be asleep or just shouts over you when he is being asked to take part in his own recovery.

OP posts:
EverdeRose · 01/06/2021 19:25

@Colouringaddict

I hope everything went well today.

Colouringaddict · 02/06/2021 22:11

He is still refusing the test and the nursing home are insisting he is tested, and rightly so.

There was mention yesterday that they would give his his 2nd COVID jab but I assume he would refuse that too!

There has to be a way of getting him there.

My DSis went to see him today, lasted 20 mins before he got really awful to her

OP posts:
Motnight · 02/06/2021 22:29

My MIL insisted on coming home after being diagnosed with cancer and being bedbound. She lives alone and has carers visiting 4 times a day. It's a horrible life in my opinion but it is the one that she has chosen. Could your dad come home?

Colouringaddict · 03/06/2021 13:52

Well it has all taken a big turn today. Spoke to the lady that is the care commissioner, she was going into a meeting with the hospital, who had taken legal advice from NHS England.

She asked why he didn’t want to take the test, explained it’s because he doesn’t want to go into a care home, never has. So she straight away said, “ let’s get him home with a live in carer then!”

I’m now waiting for someone to call me so he can have a hospital bed delivered and then I guess he comes home.

This is going to cause it’s own issues but at least he gets to go home for as long as he has left.

OP posts:
Notaroadrunner · 03/06/2021 16:01

@Colouringaddict

Well it has all taken a big turn today. Spoke to the lady that is the care commissioner, she was going into a meeting with the hospital, who had taken legal advice from NHS England.

She asked why he didn’t want to take the test, explained it’s because he doesn’t want to go into a care home, never has. So she straight away said, “ let’s get him home with a live in carer then!”

I’m now waiting for someone to call me so he can have a hospital bed delivered and then I guess he comes home.

This is going to cause it’s own issues but at least he gets to go home for as long as he has left.

Just be careful that they won't expect you and your sister to step in and do the care. Let them organise to get him home and get the carers in. Otherwise you could end up being part, or all, of his care team. If he kicks off a carer might not put up with him and leave, so be sure to let the hospital know that you and your sister are not in any position to help with his care.
ApolloandDaphne · 03/06/2021 16:02

As long as you are not expected to do any caring then that sounds like the right decision.

KOKOagainandagain · 03/06/2021 17:12

It sounds as if your father does not meet the criteria for lack of mental capacity. If he did he would not need to consent to testing and transfer to a nursing home.

This means it is not too late to get POA for financial or social needs.

Will he be getting continuing care or is he expected to foot the bill for live in carers? Or nursing home fees. If what the consultant says about lack of impairment is true he won't qualify for continuing care. My mother died a couple of days after qualifying and had to fund care up to that point.

Age Concern forums are very useful. Sorry you are going through this Thanks

KOKOagainandagain · 03/06/2021 17:23

The hospital bed is confusing given that he is supposedly choosing to be bed bound. This suggests CC but if you download the criteria I am sure that you will see he does not qualify. The hospital has to do a CC checklist prior to discharge. What were the results? Could be that Covid has changed things significantly. Given that you don't have POA, does he own his home, have savings etc.

WildWestWanda · 03/06/2021 17:49

I would be a little wary. What happens if the live in carer quits? I know ultimately they’d get a new one but you don’t know how long that might take. You may end up doing a lot of the caring

KOKOagainandagain · 03/06/2021 18:05

The NHS doesn't provide live in carers. SS do 15 min visits twice a day to do basic getting up and putting to bed. If he is not getting CC for clinical need this will be expected to be privately funded. Or care is provided gratis by family. Have you talked about how care will be funded?

Confusedandshaken · 03/06/2021 18:11

Put your phone on DND.

Motnight · 03/06/2021 18:15

My MIL has 2 carers visiting 4 times a day. She pays around £100 a week. The council pay for the rest. But, yes, all this needs to be sorted before your dad comes home, Op.

BrilliantBetty · 03/06/2021 18:19

A live in carer? They are like gold dust. I'll be very surprised if they're able to rustle up a live in carer in the next few days.

Be very careful they don't backtrack and settle on 3 times daily carers... with you being expected to fill in the gaps / when anything goes wrong.

IMO a nursing home seems more sensible if he needs round the clock care.

PanamaPattie · 03/06/2021 18:25

Stop engaging with anyone to do with his care. Don’t be there when the bed is delivered. If you do, everyone - SS etc - will assume you are the carer. Phone off.

Washimal · 03/06/2021 18:56

Where is the funding for the "live in carer" going to come from? Without wanting to sound negative, it all sounds a bit too good to be true.

HoboSexualOnslow · 03/06/2021 18:58

This is a really tough situation which I unfortunately deal with everyday. I am so glad you and your sister are a team. I wouldn't expect him to have a live in carer unless he paid for it himself, if he needs 24 hour care then care home it is. Sending love

Its90minutestonight · 03/06/2021 19:15

I think by live in carer, they mean you and your DSis OP, I'm afraid.

angieloumc · 03/06/2021 19:45

My mum passed away in December at home after being in a hospice for respite and palliative care five times over a year, and two hospital stays after falls.
She refused to go into a nursing home, saying she wanted to be at home. It was incredibly hard for both her and us (me and two siblings). Carers came in four times a day, but towards the end when she was still insisting on getting up for the commode when really she should've been in bed, the carers (or her) would call myself and my brother (sister lived an hour away) to come and move her. We both work full time fortunately as it was the pandemic we were WFH. She wasn't heavy but obviously just an immobile weight so I struggled to help her effectively. She (understandably) became frustrated, angry and sometimes downright unpleasant, not the loving mum we knew.
With the best will in the world I think that the bulk of the care will fall on you and your sister; it really is very difficult and even though you love your parent it's hard not to feel exhausted, resentful, pity, as well as every other emotion possible, including grief as they're terminally ill. Sending positivity to both of you; I hope when it comes down to it your dad does agree to the home.

HollowTalk · 03/06/2021 19:51

Is she funding the live in carer?

Colouringaddict · 03/06/2021 21:54

Ok this is how far we have got. Care Commission rep was going into a meeting with the hospital this morning, legal advice had been given by NHS England. Because this really all boiled down to him refusing because he didn’t want to go to a care home, it was agreed that he will have live in care. This will be funded by the NHS for 6 weeks, during this time they will assess his needs and what he is capable of.

Occupational Therapy are meeting us at his bungalow in the morning to see what aids he may need. He lives in a bungalow with a wet room, so it will be a hospital bed on loan at least.

My sister had a phone call from the agency that will be doing the care, they are ready to start tomorrow afternoon. Sadly she doesn’t bloody listen and interrupting without asking any questions, they will call back tomorrow afternoon, when we will be together, and I will check that everything is as promised.

I am not expecting the NHS to fund it forever, he has funds to pay himself probably for his life expectancy, maybe longer.

I have queried this several times today, because it does sound too good to be true, but it’s not a one size fits all service any more. The staff on the ward were all aware of what is to come and no one seemed surprised.

I might well fall on my backside tomorrow, but I’m going into this with my eyes wide open, for his sake apart from anything else

OP posts:
GooseberryJam · 03/06/2021 22:32

The 6 week thing is what's called re-ablement care, and is specifically for patients being discharged from hospital to help them manage at home as they get better. It doesn't get publicised much but it is there and you don't have to pay. My mum had it. That said, I've never heard of it being done through live in carers before but if that's been put in place then fair enough.
What happens afterwards depends on what social services deem necessary in their assessment of the person, and of course on the funding / self funding position. But it does buy time.

Colouringaddict · 03/06/2021 22:42

@GooseberryJam

The 6 week thing is what's called re-ablement care, and is specifically for patients being discharged from hospital to help them manage at home as they get better. It doesn't get publicised much but it is there and you don't have to pay. My mum had it. That said, I've never heard of it being done through live in carers before but if that's been put in place then fair enough. What happens afterwards depends on what social services deem necessary in their assessment of the person, and of course on the funding / self funding position. But it does buy time.
His kidneys are failing very fast, at this point 6 weeks might be enough. If not and this way of caring works for him, he will have to fund it himself, I’m happy for that to happen. He has savings. I am not expecting them to fund it beyond these 6 weeks, but that would have been the case in the nursing home too
OP posts:
MrsBobDylan · 04/06/2021 10:57

I'm so sorry for you and your Dad op. Sounds like this is his way of fighting and not giving in to his illness.

I don't know if this will help you but my Dad had heart and kidney failure and wanted to do dialysis even though his heart wasn't strong enough because he wanted to fight. He did a couple of weeks of it then his heart failed at home and he was gone within minutes.

I really feel for you, so sorry Thanks you are doing a wonderful job though.

Goodmorninglights · 04/06/2021 11:11

Oh my, you really do have a lot in your plate. I hope very much that some positive steps are made.
I wanted to post and let you know that the six week care funding is due to COVID legislation brought in last September. In a nutshell I understand it to be for those that have a change in care needs after a hospital stay. In my recent experience it wasn’t shared with us following an elderly relative’s hospital stay so it really is worth mentioning.
Good luck.