Self-employed jobs that aren't really 'self-employed'

[dailymale]

Job hunting and have seen a position that looks great. However, the position is being advertised as self-employed, when there is nothing self-employed about it. You'd agree office hours, be in a office, no flexibility or choice of tasks and projects - just like a normal job. The only thing that's self-employed is that you'd be responsible for your pension, holiday, sick pay, tax, NI... which would be pretty much impossible on the £9.50 an hour its advertised at. Is the "employer" taking the piss or AIBU?

Stay away

It's actually illegal for them to specify particular hours if it's actually self-employed. They're just trying to dodge their tax liabilities. Stay well away.

The loophole has been largely closed now through IR35 but there will still be some firms taking the piss

When it’s a higher-tax-rate salary, it’s beneficial to the ‘employee’ because they will pay a lower rate in tax. But that’s also why the government is stamping down on it

Like others said, it's a big red flag and the company is trying to dodge its responsibilities.

As PPs said it's illegal. Don't go near the company. I'd be inclined to report them.

It is quite common among small organisations , charities and even the church to try this. Ultimately it does not fit the definition of SE and is illegal.

@TeeBee

It's actually illegal for them to specify particular hours if it's actually self-employed. They're just trying to dodge their tax liabilities. Stay well away.

How does that work with tradesmen who are expected to be onsite for specified hours? I don't know anyone in the building trade who has an employer, even when they've been with one company for decades. That loophole certainly hasn't been closed. They're all self employed and as a consequence pay very little, if any tax, because everything is tax deductible, vehicles, phones, washing, clothes, tools, travel, food. 'entertainment'.

The hours isn't the only "test" Onion, but a tradesman who only works for one employer shouldn't be classified self employed.

YANBU, that’s very unlikely to be a self-employed arrangement

Tradesmen are able to work for others and can have multiple jobs on the go all at once, they are generally given projects to complete as they see fit and are not normally under direction from an individual and they can set their own hours, and use sub contractors if and when required, basically their is no mutual obligation

Not convinced you can claim 40k worth of expenses... and if so then you arent making any money!

Report the listing to HMRC.

Another test of self employment is if the 'employee' could send somebody else in to do the work for them. A tradesman could send another tradey he knows onto site to do the job if he doesn't have time, an employee is not allowed to do that.

OP This job is illegal. Please send their details to HMRC as they are clearly trying to dodge their tax responsibilities.

@TropicalFairyCake

Not convinced you can claim 40k worth of expenses... and if so then you arent making any money!

Well yes, those things (you can’t claim entertainment) are reasonable expenses whether you’re self employed or a company.

Not legal. Walk away

They're all self employed and as a consequence pay very little, if any tax, because everything is tax deductible, vehicles, phones, washing, clothes, tools, travel, food. 'entertainment'.

No, expenses are only deductible where they are wholly and exclusively related to the trade. HMRC can and do question excessive deductions, taking the piss in this area is one of the most common ways to trigger an audit.

But do report this company.

www.gov.uk/working-for-yourself

There's an online tool where you can check whether something counts as self-employed.

4pawsgood. I meant its unlikely you have that level of expenses! My partner pays tons of tax ....

But is a side issue OP sorry! The job looks v dodgy.

Wouldn't meet the SE tests - I think a pp has linked.

The other thing about being SE is that your rate of pay is generally higher to cover the tax, NI, holiday and sick pay that you don't get from the employer.

I'd avoid this one like the plague.

Thanks all. I've been self employed before, and yes, my rate was about £3 per hour more to reflect the additional costs. This job looks perfect for me apart from that, so annoying! Sadly, the job market being the way it is at mo, I'm sure they will have plenty of applicants, despite it working out below the minimum wage.

They’re dodgy bastards. Trying to avoid tax and avoid giving their ‘self-employed’ staff sick pay and holiday.

I'm wondering whether to reply but question why it's a self employed posiiton in my application. Maybe no one has pointed out that it's illegal...

I’ve seen adverts similar to this; usually cleaning companies. It specifies an hourly rate but then says you would be SE. Also asks you have your own car. I’ve often wondered if you were a cleaner (for example) how this would benefit you, may as well just advertise yourself with your own hourly rate.