To wonder why people would never defend smoking in the same way they do drinking?

[facemaskhate]

It's completely baffling to me.

Tobacco is harmful when used exactly as intended, alcohol is not unless you abuse it.

@CounsellorTroi

Tobacco is harmful when used exactly as intended, alcohol is not unless you abuse it.

Not true

Many things are bad for you and no things are risk free. We go through life risk assessing things and balancing them against our desire to have enjoyment. Each of us makes that assessment for themselves.

I do vaguely wonder whether this is also influenced by the fact that alcoholic drinks have been part of human societies for thousands of years. When you didn't have access to safe water supplies like we do, alcohol was safer (but also weaker than what we drink recreationally now).

Whereas cigarette smoking is a bit like asbestos - in that it was an innovation that was hailed as fantastic and was commercialised and mass-marketed before we discovered it was more catastrophic to human health than fantastic.

At least in terms of how we view it culturally (I realise tobacco was brought to this country few hundred years ago). But the negativity and social unacceptability of tobacco does seem to very much tie into the way it was commercialised and mass marketed in the 20th century - there is an element of that being viewed as being as toxic as the smoking.

These companies that profited off killing people and lied about the evidence on cancer. There's a layer of scandal about it all. Have we as a society had a similar experience with alcohol?

These are just my idle observations though.

I have as little as no glasses of wine and many as 3. Clearly not everyday. When social life resumes and I am back in the office I may occassionally, go for a drink after work in the week.

My bigger point is I drank much heavier in my 20s. I would be totally addicted to smoking if that had been cigarettes.

So not really that baffling after all.

Comparison to asbestos came to mind because there can be a similar sort of recoiling in horror to what happened with asbestos that you see about cigarettes/tobacco.

I thought if you smoke regularly you are likely to die from a smoking related illness. As far as I'm aware if you drink regularly you are not likely to die from a drinking related illness. Though the effect is probably more than people realise but its indirect eg alcohol will affect your immune system, your sleep, your weight your gut health etc which in turn affect lots of illnesses however it doesn't directly cause those illnesses so people aren't as bothered about it. I think there are also studies showing alcohol is increasingly linked to risk of cancer etc. However that link is at population level and there are other lifestyle factors and genetics that come into play so at an individual level it's still difficult for people to link drinking to their health.

Also smokers cost the NHS more so there has been a lot more investment from the government in reducing smoking eg increasing tax, banning smoking, changing advertising. These things all do have an affect on how people see smoking. If you had to go outside to drink your beer from a bottle with a picture of a diseased liver on it, people would start to see it as a bad thing

They are not comparable, particularly in one’s home because of passive smoking

I've just read what I assume is the same thread that you did, and I presume it's fashion.
If you posted a thread saying I'm smoking 20 a week (social smoker), should I cut down? You wouldn't get people saying no, you're fine! I smoke more than that and I'm fit as a fiddle! Because it's not fashionable to smoke.
Yet someone's posted is 2 full bottles of wine a week too much? (Or something similar), and the response is half full of people bragging they drink that and more, people who are saying they should cut down are boring and judgemental, don't they eat junk food, that's just as bad, on TV they have a glass of wine with every meal and noone judges them

Basically, the people on that thread who defended drinking that badly, clearly have a problem relationship with alcohol. They may not drink too much, but they clearly rely on what they do drink.

Most people just choose their vices. Health and social conscience concerns aside, I’d be smoking, snorting and drinking 7 nights a week. I’d also eat bacon for breakfast every day.

As it is, I don’t smoke or take drugs. I eat mostly healthily and I enjoy a drink two or three evenings a week. It’s my choice of vice. I manage to do this without getting into fights, swearing at strangers and vomiting in my neighbours’ gardens. I know it’s an unhealthy choice, just like when I eat a big steak or have a big slice of cake. I have no desire to live a constantly perfectly healthy life.

I don’t think anyone thinks it’s healthy or risk free. But it’s obviously less impactful on others in terms of smell and cancer risk (smoking), crime (drugs), the environment (meat consumption).

Why do you care so much?

Christ, all theses goody goodies on here.

And there are a lot of people who follow social conventions with great obedience (alcohol is the norm, don’t challenge the norm).

On the argument about safe levels of alcohol, that's always up for debate and is constantly challenged. When we think of safe levels we generally mean liver disease, cancer etc but I believe it was the Guardian posted an article last week about how it's been found there is no safe level of drinking on the brain and that every drink contributes to decreasing white and grey matter and that even moderate drinking can considerable increase the risk of dementia. I'm not judging as I enjoy the odd glass of wine and vape but just to put it out there.

If anyone fancies a read: www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/may/18/any-amount-of-alcohol-consumption-harmful-to-the-brain-finds-study

Though the effect is probably more than people realise but its indirect eg alcohol will affect your immune system, your sleep, your weight your gut health etc which in turn affect lots of illnesses

That doesn't sound indirect at all

Most people do some things that are bad for their health. Eating too much salt, sugar, bad fats, processed food, not doing exercise etc. Just sitting down too much can have similar health risks to smoking. The difference is, having a couple of glasses of wine a couple of times a week or sitting down too much don't adversely affect anyone but the person themselves. I loathe smoking because it's a disgusting, smelly habit. I don't hang out with people who stagger around city centres fighting and puking, so I don't witness any disgusting effects of alcohol. Yes it's still bad for you. So is ham. And crisps.

@KnobJockey

I've just read what I assume is the same thread that you did, and I presume it's fashion. If you posted a thread saying I'm smoking 20 a week (social smoker), should I cut down? You wouldn't get people saying no, you're fine! I smoke more than that and I'm fit as a fiddle! Because it's not fashionable to smoke. Yet someone's posted is 2 full bottles of wine a week too much? (Or something similar), and the response is half full of people bragging they drink that and more, people who are saying they should cut down are boring and judgemental, don't they eat junk food, that's just as bad, on TV they have a glass of wine with every meal and noone judges them

Basically, the people on that thread who defended drinking that badly, clearly have a problem relationship with alcohol. They may not drink too much, but they clearly rely on what they do drink.

This is what I mean, it's cognitive dissonance at its best

@Bourbonandcoke

Christ, all theses goody goodies on here.

This isn't year 9

Surely no-one defends binge drinking? Getting actually drunk is bad for your health, but many empirical studies have shown that a bit of alcohol is good for your heart. So in moderation alcohol is fine, whereas smoking is always bad for you. 70% if smokers die from cancer and the majority of the other 30% also have ever cancer or early signs of cancer, but they just managed to fie of something else before the cancer killed them. Like heart attacks, which is also often caused by smoking.

Other people’s smoking damages your health and leaves clothes and hair absolutely stinking.
There is absolutely no comparison between the two. None. I drink less than ten units a week. That has no impact on my health or on anyone else’s or on the well-being of society.
My mother’s smoking colleagues probably contributed to her death as her secondary lung cancer was an unusual secondary cancer from her primary one. She had little choice but to sit in a staff room in the 70s and 80s full of smokers.
This attempt to claim that smoking is no worse than alcohol is beyond pathetic. Misuse of alcohol is bad - no question. But low level of drinking causes no problems. Smoking kills.

@Fimofriend

Surely no-one defends binge drinking? Getting actually drunk is bad for your health, but many empirical studies have shown that a bit of alcohol is good for your heart. So in moderation alcohol is fine, whereas smoking is always bad for you. 70% if smokers die from cancer and the majority of the other 30% also have ever cancer or early signs of cancer, but they just managed to fie of something else before the cancer killed them. Like heart attacks, which is also often caused by smoking.

For you to reap the heart benefits of alcohol (red wine only by the way) is to have 75mls a day and no more.

Because most people who drink within the recommended guidelines suffer no ill health as a result, and don't cause others health issues

Any amount of smoking is bad for you, and those you smoke around

It's comparing apples with oranges. They are simply not the same thing at all

This attempt to claim that smoking is no worse than alcohol is beyond pathetic.

I've said nothing of the sort..!

@bigbaggyeyes

Because most people who drink within the recommended guidelines suffer no ill health as a result, and don't cause others health issues

Any amount of smoking is bad for you, and those you smoke around

It's comparing apples with oranges. They are simply not the same thing at all

Any amount of alcohol is bad for health. It's just not publicised

Any amount of alcohol is bad for health. It's just not publicised

If it's not publicised where are you getting your information from?