To let DC cycle in a ‘no cycling’ park?

[RaisinFlapjack]

Our school run (of 1 mile) takes us through a park which has a no cycling policy. Until recently DC have scooted, but eldest (6) has recently started to prefer cycling.

Lots of small children ride trikes etc through the park and it’s not at all uncommon to see older children on bikes too.

So..do I let DC cycle through the park in contravention of the ‘no cycling’ policy, tell them they have to scoot or take the long way round on the road, avoiding the park, so they can cycle?

@NewMatress

Where are children supposed to learn if not on the pavement and not in the park?

In cul de sacs, quiet back streets, playgrounds, empty car parks. Lots of spaces that weren't being used by other. But never in areas designated 'no cycling'.

As I said upthread, sometimes areas are no cycling because of the infrastructure. Other times it is just 'the norm'. But nobody should cycle in those areas, whatever the underlying reason, until the restriction is officially lifted. Then everyone using the space knows what kind of space it is they are using and can act accordingly.

Oh, and the municipal insurance will be correct for that space.

But mainly all users will be their fully informed, consenusally!

Annoys me when people cycle in areas that clearly say ‘no cycling’. Why should pedestrians have to accommodate this? I wouldn’t drive across areas that say ‘no motor vehicles’. However if you think it’s a daft rule (which maybe it is) take it up with the council or whoever deals with such things.

I get all this, but this particular park supports adult scooters, so the hazzards aren't being increased by a child cycling. It would be far better if the council removed the signs though, I agree.

@NewMatress Oh yes!

Brockwell Park in S London is a big park and provides a short cut for cyclists, a decent length in which to avoid roads (even though they have cycle lanes and LTNs) and also a main path that goes round the perimeter. So the Lycra Menace were doing circuits all the time.

Speeding up behind people silently, passing with inches to spare, weaving between pedestrians at speed, travelling very fast.

Dulwich park can be as bad but as there are so many children on bikes there I think they get in the way of the adult doors merchants. Also it has no hills, so is not as attractive to the muscled-thigh brigade.

God, I am so sick of hobby cyclists.

Really? Are there lots of "proper" cyclists in parks? It's really not where they'd chose to cycle.

I think this particular park could be quite popular with “proper” cyclists if it were allowed as it’s a convenient route from A>B. That might be why it’s not allowed - though I know of similar parks where the paths are designated as cycle routes to actively encourage that kind of use.

Reading online there’s clearly been some local debate about this and a proposed change to allow cycling was opposed by a local community group. Same group has form for being rather NIMBY and change resistant but wield a bit of influence.

MN at its finest: I will teach my children to decide which rules apply to them. That should prove interesting.

I would contact the council. If cycling is not allowed is this because it could be a safe shortcut for many cyclists? A safer route to school?

If this is the case, then garner interest from the local community to have the council create a dedicated cycle path through or round the park. There is often funding available for safer cycling projects.
They can keep the ban on the rest of the park.

I wouldn't. I think it sends a wrong message to children - there's a rule but we're not going to follow it because it will ruin our fun.

Where are children supposed to learn if not on the pavement and not in the park?
There are plenty of parks you can cycle in. The park discussed on the thread has said no in this case.
Mine learned to cycle on a section of Tesco car park. Its a massive one with large setions that are bever used,even at peak times such as Christmas so they were well away from traffic.
They also practised on forest trails were cycling is allowed. There's loads of places.

@Ariela

I would contact the council. If cycling is not allowed is this because it could be a safe shortcut for many cyclists? A safer route to school?

If this is the case, then garner interest from the local community to have the council create a dedicated cycle path through or round the park. There is often funding available for safer cycling projects.
They can keep the ban on the rest of the park.

I’m quite tempted to see if a local campaign could be started.

It seems like it’s one of those long-standing local bylaw situations but a local group has objected to it being lifted. Same local group also objected to an adventure playground being built in another local park on the grounds it would increase footfall so I don’t have much time for their way of thinking, I just don’t think they like people using parks

If a successful campaign turned the main route through the park into a designated cycle path, & it was then full of adults taking the shortcut on their big, fast bikes every morning, would you feel safe walking the route with your younger dc on scooters & oldest on his little bike?

Because that might well be how an older person walking their little dog, say, currently feels about kids on bikes - vulnerable & at risk of being knocked flying & injured.

I'm not saying that dc shouldn't cycle in parks, at all, just that there are clearly competing needs here which the council need to carefully weigh up & signpost accordingly.

If they've told you that they don't enforce the rule for young children then fair enough, I guess YANBU after all - but it would help if they put up a 'no cycling for over ' sign or two so that vulnerable pedestrians knew to keep an eye & ear out.

@AlfonsoTheTerrible

MN at its finest: I will teach my children to decide which rules apply to them. That should prove interesting.

In this case though the council themselves have said they don’t have a problem with young children using bikes in the park, so it’s not a hard-and-fast ‘no means no’ policy.

I have taken on board people’s comments and it’s influenced me to think that when he graduates from his little bike that he’s been riding with stabilisers until recently, the time has come to tell him he can’t cycle there any more.

@raisinflapjack You only found that out after you'd started posting, though, and before that you'd demonstrated a clear intention of letting your DC cycle. The fact that the council agrees with you is fortuitous but I think it's disingenuous to suggest that it was the deciding factor for you.

Something I like about threads like this is I feel they give us a view of the inner workings of minds of people we might find awkward or unreasonable in real life. It's so interesting to see how they convince themselves they are right despite other people not mirroring that back to them.

I hope the OP does get involved with lobbying for change in the community, if the rule is wrong then people should work to change it.

But as many PPs have pointed out- there are good reasons why some spaces are cycling friendly and others are not. If I take my one year old out for a toddle in a no-cycling park, I don't appreciate older children zipping past them on bikes. It's dangerous and obnoxious. Furthermore a lot of people wouldn't have to think like this but people with disabilities, such as the blind or deaf/hard of hearing, seek out places that don't have cycling. Small children can be more dangerous than adults as they can't be expected to be as careful or aware of their surroundings, anyway, all good things to debate with the council or whoever, as opposed to just doing whatever you please and bugger everyone else in the public space you chose to come to.

[quote trixies]@raisinflapjack You only found that out after you'd started posting, though, and before that you'd demonstrated a clear intention of letting your DC cycle. The fact that the council agrees with you is fortuitous but I think it's disingenuous to suggest that it was the deciding factor for you.[/quote]
He’s only very recently started asking to cycle instead of scoot which I’ve allowed him to do but not felt 100% comfortable with, hence the thread.

But the fact the council don’t mind evidently explains why there’s so many young children with bikes in the park, and seeing so many other children made me feel it was probably ok.

@raisinflapjack Sure. So in thinking it was probably OK, your intention was to teach your DC which rules apply to him. Which was @alfonsotheterrible's point.

@AlfonsoTheTerrible

MN at its finest: I will teach my children to decide which rules apply to them. That should prove interesting.

It is how I was brought up. I was brought up to think about the impact of my actions on others, to take responsibility for my choices, to see the other person's perspective and to always proritise the needs of others except in emergencies. But I was not brought up to follow every rule regardless.

There are many rule-abiding people who are total twats, they can't think for themselves, they gripe, they drag everyone down, they can't negotiate or compromise or judge anything. They basically live like adult-sized primary children.

@pictureandpickles Ironically, taking your approach in this scenario would tend to suggest making the opposite decision to the one the OP has made. For example, considering the impact of children cycling in a space where pedestrians are prepared not to have to deal with cyclists; seeing their perspective; prioritising their needs.

Negotiating and compromising might be, for example, asking the park to rectify their signage, campaigning for better cycle access, or similar. Just deciding to do it anyway because other people do is, well, not terribly dissimilar from a primary child mindset...

@picturesandpickles I am the same. But OP was not planning on ignoring this rule out of consideration for others or some social justice issue. She was considering it because it was more convenient for her and her children.

There are many public safety reasons why some parks are non-cycling. In this situation consideration for others leans towards following the rule.

She can absolutely encourage her children to follow this particular rule while also teaching them that some rules are unjust and should be challenged. Keeping your bike in the shed and pulling out a scooter instead, or cycling and pushing your bike through the park, is not the same as standing by while rights are trampled on by an unjust law.

[quote trixies]**@raisinflapjack* Sure. So in thinking it was probably OK, your intention was to teach your DC which rules apply to him. Which was @alfonsotheterrible*'s point.[/quote]
Yes I’ve already told him that it’s ok while you’re small and still learning (same as cycling on the pavement) as long as he’s careful. He does seem to understand the idea that different rules can apply to differEnt people in the different circumstances rather than ‘we just don’t give a shit about rules’.

@Beamur

Apologies, haven't rtft. Is there maybe a design or layout here that could be introduced? The fact that there are no cycling signs yet this yet this is obviously a good route to school seems to me that another approach would be to see if the Council could do something to make it safer for all users? Getting kids to school without being driven is incredibly important for their future health as well as air pollution.. I'm aware of a park near where I used to live that did exactly that. There was a blanket no cycling rule. But there's a brilliant link through the park (to a high school too) which was an obvious cycle route. It can now be used by cyclists, on this route, but not everywhere in the park. Rules can be changed.

If a route is great for taking children to school, even more reason for it to be no cycling. Young children are unpredictable and don’t always react how you think they will. There will also be lots of them to manoeuvre around on a bike.

Around my DD’s school, there is a path that 99% of families use. There is one family who cycle around it every day and the small boy (just learning as the OP keeps banging on about) wobbles his way between all the walkers every day. I’ve seen him nearly hit many people. I wish they would make it a no cycling route.

How many children do you have and how old? I would try to get the others onto bikes and then you can all walk bikes through the park. I'm impressed that you can walk fast enough to keep up with scooters and a bike! I do a bike school run with 3 Y1-Y3 DC on bikes and I'd have to sprint if I didn't have my own bike!

That's partly a design issue though. But it will depend on the space available.
Kids shouldn't be discouraged from cycling or scooting to school. Learning how to share space is part of that.
Cycling uptake in the UK is really poor and the negative way cyclists are viewed is a big part of that. There are fewer problems in places where the infrastructure is better designed.