To think this is why our A and E are failing?!

[DaisyLilyFlower]

Currently in A and E with suspected ectopic pregnancy (told to come here from 111) and current wait is around 4 hours, already been here two.

I’ve been sat by triage next to the reception desk, so not deliberately being nosy but in the last hour two patients have come in with

One with an ear infection
And another with a ingrown toenail

Cannot believe it! Reception asked them both if they’d been to see GP or rang 111, tried overnight pharmacy etc and both said no!
I do not doubt that both of those conditions are extremely painful, but I sort of can’t believe that people turn up to A and E without trying other methods first?

I’m probably just being wingy as I’m in pain and the wait is long and ABU, but I guess my question is,

What’s the worst thing you’ve seen at a and e?

Also Name change as don’t want this linked to my other posts but reg poster.

I was taken in by ambulance as they thought my appendix was going to burst. This is pre-covid.
I had tried to get a GP appointment but came up against the Desk Dragons. Took some painkillers and tried to carry on.
By 6pm, when DP came home from work, I was doubled up in severe pain. He wanted to call an ambulance and I said no, so he rang 111.
They sent an OOH GP to me, who took one look at me and rang an ambulance.
Ambulance services rang and said "can't you just get there yourself- at this point I was vomiting so no taxi would've had me, DP had to stay home with the DCs and we didn't have a car. So straight away I felt a nuisance.
The OOH GP had already spoken to the surgery team, but I had to go through A+E first to be logged in as it was after 5.30pm

Got to hospital. Logged in then put in majors.
Was given no privacy of a curtain or even a blanket, and left sat bolt upright despite saying it was causing huge pain.
Nurse was so rude and said "well you should've just had some paracetamol instead of coming here and taking up a bed and an ambulance".

I was in tears, in pain and alone.

On one side of me was a guy who had a sore back. His wife was being so rude to the same nurse. Demanding a bed on a ward. Saying how would he get home. Nurse asked how he got there and his wife said "well he drove didn't he". So one minute he can sit up and operate a car, next he can't sit up, he has to lay flat. No he hadn't seen a GP or taken painkillers.

On the other side, a woman with period pains. Actual period pains. In a Majors bed. Same nurse asked her about painkillers- nope. She hadn't bothered.

After 3 hours, I asked could I please speak to someone, as I was in a horrendous amount of pain, had been vomiting, had no privacy and they had put a blood pressure cuff on an hour before and left it inflating and deflating ever since.

I hasten to add I couldn't have been more polite and this nurse had had others shout and abuse her.

She absolutely screamed at me. Lost her shit. Right in my face. Called me a bed blocker. Told me it's people like me who waste A+E time because we are bored. I'd been there "all day" wasting people's time making up symptoms.

When I came into majors they had done hand over. My name wasn't behind my bed and no one checked my notes. So clearly, on hand over, whoever was there before me was a pain in the arse.

I left it another two hours and I went home. They didn't even notice. DP told me I should call and let them know. When I did they said "she's in a bed on the ward". I said, no I'm at home, I am her. I'd been gone over an hour and they hadn't noticed.

I ended up having to go to my GP to have the cannula taken out. The appendectomy didn't happen as it calmed down again. But I still have rumbling appendicitis and I don't dare go near the hospital because I don't want to be screamed at. My GP actually put in a complaint for me as she said if they'd checked my blood tests it was showing high for infection.

Never got an apology, they never admitted they mixed me up with another patient, and they said I must have been rude.

So two people who didn't need to be there and were rude got great care. I got treated like shit and put at risk. It showed on my notes that within an hour of getting there and bar the blood tests they never looked at, they planned on making me a "wait it out" eg, NHS code for stick them on a trolley and then send them home asap. So a surgeon was probably waiting to see me and decide next steps and I never arrived, he probably thought I was a timewaster.

My husband went to a&e with a painful back, which most people would say doesn't need a&e treatment. Turns out he has Guillain-Barré syndrome, and will more than likely spend months in hospital. Don't judge somebody based on what you think you know.

A friend of mine who was early 40s with young kids had a “sore hip” in first lockdown. By the time it was taken seriously enough to scan they found cancer that couldn’t be treated and she died. Six months after the pain began.
It’s not always obvious what is serious at triage.

Lockdownbear I wasn't judging.

Ectopic pregnancy may be urgent.They will have gynae on call, and casualty can order scan. I had emergency op in the middle of the night. They will confirm diagnosis and then decide. Good luck op, they won't send you home until they are sure

I went with my ex partner to A&E pre-COVID when he had an infected ingrown hair that wasn’t responding to antibiotics and was going septic and we had been told by 111 to go in. While we were in the queue to be assessed, I overheard the lady in front of us telling the nurse that she had bought her son in because he had banged his elbow and they couldn’t immediately get a GP appointment.
I did roll my eyes a bit at that, but I try to remember that I don’t know the full story.

People do abuse A&E but I suppose I’d rather someone go to A&E unnecessarily than not go when there’s something seriously wrong.
I nearly didn’t go in once because I just felt really ill and wrong but couldn’t quite put my finger on why and when I did go it turned out I had septicaemia and possibly could have died if I hadn’t gone.

I've been a few times and both times they said the waiting time was 4 hours and I was seen, X-rayed, bandaged up and out by within 2 hours. I wonder if they put 4 hours as the worst case scenario to try to put off people who don't need to be there. Some people would be better going to get treatment at walk in centres.

@Cannes12

I suspect its because they can't actually help you with a suspected ectopic pregnancy. They have to wait for the gynae department to open in the morning to scan you. So you could wait on a bed, meaning they couldn't treat someone else. Or you could wait in the waiting room where they can keep half an eye on you in case you collapse. Doesn't make it right. But I was blue lighted in at midnight once. Given a bed in a and e but they didn't do anything, just transfered me tk gynae in the morning. Hope you're OK

Absolutely not true - ectopics can be life threatening and the gynae wards that deal with them are 24/7. I have had a ruptured ectopic pregnancy and would be dead if I waited for the Mon-Fri early pregnancy unit to see me.

OP if you work on the basis that a large chunk of the population are a bit thick then life starts to make a lot more sense. It’s not nice but it’s true.

And hope you feel better soon

Many many years before covid, I took my son to A*e barely able to walk with a football injury. Gp was closed after school. A&e had lots of 25-40 year olds with d&v. It's always been true that some turn up with completely inappropriate conversations.

When I was much younger about 30 years ago I remember sitting in a&e with someone covered in blood still bleeding quite badly and crying. I honestly dont remember a time when you didnt wait hours to be seen for anything.

Anyway I hope you get seen asap you poor thing. I hope it all works out

Hope you’re ok OP, I agree some people treat a&e as a free pharmacy, getting a doctors apt can be a bloody nightmare too!

I have a lot of sympathy for people who genuinely are worried , even if their injury or illness is not serious. Some people genuinely panic and fear the worst , often due to MH concerns and I get why they do it.

Similarly those that have underlying conditions that mean what seems to be a simple thing can have huge consequences. For example my DF recently had a sore shoulder , it was misdiagnosed on his GPS E Consult at shingles and medication was given. Which had a massive interaction with his Warfarin. As it happens I know about the interaction and told them to get a warfarin test. It was cancelled twice and DF started to feel unwell that night . He probably seemed not to be tood bad in the waiting room but when they saw him and took his blood there was a whole incident issue right then and there.

All that said I have absolutely known people who go for a bloody trip or in a couple of cases which make me incandescently angry because they want to get their moneys worth from the NHS so why shouldn't they hop to if they sneeze or just feel like they haven't got enough attention. It's these people who make the genuine (even if they don't seem to be ) people seem suspicious because you can't tell the difference.

Nothing more arrogant than entitlement to a service we are bloody lucky to have.

There will be lots of pointless cases in A&E, and they need processes to swiftly despatch those cases. A random person sitting near reception isn't best placed to judge the medical need for each person. A relative's unbearable ear pain turned out to be sepsis and very serious, needing a few days in hospital. The ingrown toe nail should be treated at home or by chatting to GP, but if the person has severe diabetes then they may have been told in the past to get immediate attention. I don't know why a suspected fracture wouldn't go to A&E to be honest, all the GP can do is send them there so no point wasting the GP's time.

I hope you're ok OP and got reassurance or treatment as needed.

Dh went to a&e with an ingrown toenail once, we'd paid private to have it sorted but it came
Back with a vengeance, his entire toe swelled up, was green and he was hot and feverish and he couldn't walk - it was really badly infected. They triaged him, wouldn't even look at it as apparently
"We don't treat toes".
He went to the gp the day after and they were horrified, he needed a small op and super strong antibiotics. The infection was so severe they said he could have lost his foot if it was left untreated. This was ten years ago so whether they treat toes now I don't know! But the triage nurse point blank refused to even look how bad it was and he was so seriously poorly with the infection.

So, an ingrown toe nail might not sound like an emergency, but it really really can be!

The thing is you can't always tell. I have had to attend A&E in the past due to a sore throat. As I was taking medication which means that any signs of infection could be due to issues with bone marrow which are life threatening. The only way of getting a blood test over a weekend is to attend A&E.

@DaisyLilyFlower the other thing to consider is that most A&E’s have a separate entrance for ambulances as well. Do you may have seen a few people but I can guarantee they aren't the only ones. Additionally, there are fewer staff on of a night because the attendance numbers are lower generally speaking. The patients that are leftover of a night are most likely very unwell and require more urgent hell which pushes up the wait for others who are less so. It's more complicated than people realise but essentially A&E for the most part do an amazing job under very difficult circumstances, aggression has been appalling at our ED purely because the wait is long for those coming in with GP related issues and they don't like it.

Sciatica is treated with painkillers an anti inflammatory. If diagnosis is correct it needs physio not a and e

[quote FangsForTheMemory]@WrongWayApricot I walked around for three weeks on a broken ankle. HTH.[/quote]
And a few other posters. I still don't think I would bypass a GP's opinion and go straight to a & e if I could walk on my sore (unknowingly broken) ankle for 3 days or 3 weeks. Unless the pain suddenly got much worse I would make a GP appointment, out of hours appointment, go to the minor injuries unit or call 111 before going to a & e.

My neighbour went directly to a & e and that's what I found odd, not that he was seeking treatment. PP said their nurse family member persuaded them to go, I wouldn't consider that going straight to a & e. I don't want my comment to put people off getting treatment. If the only way someone is willing or able to get assessed is by going to a & e then I hope they do go. I'm sorry if it came across as me saying people shouldn't have treatment at all, I only meant that I personally wouldn't consider going directly to a & e after 3 days of walking on it.

You will get some time wasters in any service, particularly free ones. I do think GPs have a lot to answer for over this year though. It's probably easier to get an audience with the Pope than an appointment at my gps surgery.

Incidentally I had to take my toddler to a&e with an ear infection this time last year. I'm sure people thought we were time wasters but I had been ringing my GP daily to get them to look at it and after a week I gave up. She needed 2 weeks worth of penicillin and was lucky her hearing wasn't damaged. I still feel guilty for not taking her to the hospital sooner...

I was assaulted by a lady who was outraged at the wait time for the ongoing cramp she had in her big toe. She had decided to take it upon herself to slip through the waiting room doors and come to the back to see what was taking so long.

I was taking blood gasses from a very very unwell baby up to the ICU unit and she decided to grab me an demand she be treated. She refused to let me go and it got quite nasty. Six weeks later I had to sit in a meeting with PALs/management because she made a personal complaint against me and the Dr that dragged her off me.

Whilst she didn't actually cause the issues that led to the death of the wee child we weren't allowed in the meeting to tell her the circumstances as 'not to upset her'

I was livid.

@Tiktokersmiracle

Hmm If they’d thought it was chronic appendicitis they’d have taken it out anyway to avert acute, surely.

When I had appendicitis - while there are no direct tests - there are key tell tale signs - pain that starts in the middle of the abdomen then moves down to the lower right, fever, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea/constipation. There are indicative tests - when pressure applied to the abdomen is as or more painful on release than the pressure itself; ultrasound; blood tests showing inflammatory markers are high etc.

I don’t think they would have released you if your blood tests indicated you might have appendicitis.

Mine was taken out the next day.

I never thought I would say this but I'm sick of the NHS. Sick of it. It makes me miserable to think how much Bojo and American med insurance companies would love reading that but it is broken beyond repair. It is virtually impossible to see a GP here. That is one of the big roots of the problem.

We need a complete and utter rip it all up and start again reform of the NHS. Basing it on countries like France and Germany, and with a big focus on regular preventative care.

Far too much judgement here.

If people genuinely feel they need A&E then they should go. Far too many social problems to untangle to 'hate' the people attending.

Staff should be more tolerant and accept this situation and treat everyone with the same amount of respect. Triage is there to make sure people are treated in the correct order.

I hope I never need treatment from the pp who prefers unconscious patients in ICU.

My father died in A&E - was sent home several times in quick succession with hospital acquired pneumonia which didn't respond to antibiotics.

My mother, who has dementia, was assessed by paramedics as being 'fine' as she could weight bear on her legs despite her knee being the size of a football. The following week, having managed to get a GP to attend, an ambulance was called as her knee was the same. She waited 17 hrs for the ambulance. Then 4 hours outside hospital, 8 hours inside A&E before finding out her knee cap was 'smashed to pieces'. She's now bed ridden.

I began treatment for a frozen shoulder two years ago the day after contacting the GP. I've been waiting since Christmas for treatment on my other shoulder which started the process of 'freezing' many months ago. I've had to go to A&E several times as this shoulder 'cracks' and becomes stuck in some gruesome positions. I've always been seen fairly promptly. It's my dominant arm and I can't work. I'm self employed and I have no income.

I was promised steroid injections after my second COVID vaccine?????

Still waiting.

Massive problems in the NHS.

A number of A&E have a GP service or minor injuries attached now where we are in London.

I think one of the issues is that GPs don’t refer people for issues but keep trying ineffective treatments. DS2 was getting frequent nosebleeds. We tried the creams from the GP, got a humidifier etc. Still happening - several times a week. Eventually we went private - the consultant cauterised a damaged blood vessel and the problem was solved.

We had had multiple GP appointments, several prescriptions for a problem that was solved by a 20 min appointment with a specialist. Economically as well as medically an earlier referral would have been better for DS2 and the NHS.

I think sometimes people use A&E as a form of escalation/referral to specialists because of frustration with their GP.