Restructuring the school year

[AntiSocialDistancer]

inews.co.uk/news/education/education-catch-up-shorter-school-summer-holiday-ofsted-1005616/amp

A five term school year? With 2 week breaks and 4 weeks off at summer?

What do you think? With the understanding every school, pre-school etc falls into line.

Yanbu - let's change
Yabu - stay the same

*young

That sounds more disruptive than a long summer holiday 🤷‍♀️

I think it's a good idea. A lot kids and their parents find 6 weeks too long and after 4 are desperate to go back to school.

The only good thing I can think of about it - and generally I’d be against - is that vulnerable children wouldn’t disappear off the schools’ radar for as long in the summer.

However I’m not expert enough to know if more shorter “holidays” would be worse for those children.

I don't know what to think. Probably wouldn't make much difference to us because we like most normal people have to rely on a holiday club and can't take 6 weeks off at all let alone all in one go.

If private schools have longer days and longer holidays, there's a reason.

Increasing the gap between the 2 systems is never a good thing for the ones left behind in the state system.

I havent read the entire thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned but another consideration is children from split homes. School holidays are often a time when the kids get to spend more time with the nrp. We have 50% of the school holidays with DSS but only have him 5 out of 14 nights during term. Due to distance from his school we couldn't increase term time visitation so he would miss out on more time with his dad.

I'd hate this.

My DD goes to her dads EOW so I live for the school holidays where I get extended time with her and no day to day drudgery. She loves holiday club and works quieter in the summer so I can get early finishes to pick her up and spend time with her plus late nights on none working days.

She also has a joint condition, it means that she needs regular physio, we can time her intensive physio programme to be during those 6 weeks where she has the option to rest or change days if there's too short a time period between appointments with little consequence (at worst it might be my mum who takes her rather than me due to me working - she gets spoilt by my mum so she'd be fine with that).Even holiday club is relaxing as they don't have to do anything if they don't want to, so if it's the day after physio DD can sit and watch tv on her ipad all day to rest.

So we'd both loathe to lose that time. I'd like it to be slightly longer actually, maybe 7 or 8 weeks. I'd happily lose the week at witsun/June to accomodate slightly longer.

I voted YANBU, on balance.

I don't think this is a ploy or a conspiracy or a smoke screen. I think it's one suggestion that should be considered alongside other measures to make up for the lack of education suffered by many children over this last year. And the fact of poorer children missing out on meals and the loss of knowledge experienced over the long summer holiday even in pre-pandemic times.

Other measures obviously starting with more funding for schools and a decent welfare system that doesn't allow so many children to end up in poverty in the first place.

I can see there are pros and cons, as there are with the current system. As the article says, it would have to include every school to avoid mayhem. It also says opposition 'tends to come from the privileged middle classes who don't see the poverty'. If I was a SAHP with more than one child and a bit of disposable income I would probably hate the idea of losing our long, lazy holidays watching my children playing together in the garden. People suggest holiday camps or clubs for disadvantaged children, and summer soup kitchens. But for support to reach all children that need it you would have to make it compulsory, like attending school. Is that fair? My son hated holiday clubs. He sometimes had to go because we were both at work and it was the only childcare option but luckily it was only for odd days. He'd have been miserable if he had been forced to go for weeks on end.

I think it could offer more choice for holidays too. If there was a two week holiday in May followed by a four week holiday in August I would go away in May. The weather is very dodgy towards the end of August anyway.

My DS doesn't have any siblings and misses his friends in the long holidays. Some of the kids he's at school with live in villages miles away and it's not practical for them to get together. He can go six or seven weeks without seeing some of them.

I do think it's notable that education unions haven't ruled it out. Sadly the fact that Gavin Williamson could still be the minister overseeing any changes doesn't give me any confidence that they won't fuck it up completely. I still think it's an idea worth discussion though.

I can't see how it would work in terms of the dates assuming that you aim to have Christmas falling during a holiday period. Suppose school terms were:
2nd January to 1st March
15th March to 15th May
1st June to 1st August
1st September to 1st November
15h November to -- what? If it's 24th December it's still under 6 weeks with a break of just over one week.

And there are similar problems however you structure it unless you say that Christmas and the New Year are just going to be three days off during a normal school term. As it is, you will have a lot of breaks in the term/s covering Easter and May.

I would be more inclined to increase the length of the holidays to 8 weeks. That would give more scope for clubs and summer camps to fill that time. I would give free vouchers for these to those on FSM.
Shortening school terms is not going to magically improve things for poor children. And I don't think the argument that there are some crap parents who don't bother to do anything with their children all summer is a reason to inflict change on everyone. People really do need to take responsibility for their own family. And the government needs to provide proper funding and support to enable them to do so. Not fiddle around the edges with things like free food in the holidays.

2nd January to 1st March
15th March to 15th May
1st June to 1st August
1st September to 1st November
15h November to -- what? If it's 24th December it's still under 6 weeks with a break of just over one week.

The terms are supposed to be 8 weeks with a 2 week gap though. Your examples are 2 months, which is 9 weeks.

As a retired teacher I remember the absolute need for the end of a summer term. I could have been wiped off the floor and the Summer break which is shorter for teachers allowed us to come back refreshed and with renewed energy.

They tried to do this in our area (city with high proportion of deprived areas). The evidence had all pointed to it being a good thing in terms of reducing the extent to which kids forget things over the summer, reducing the pressure on social service from kids with a range of problems which go unmonitored when they are not in school eg not having access to proper food, general safeguarding concerns etc, reducing the pressure on emergency services - crime levels, deliberate fires etc. The biggest impact was the improvement in educational levels.

Parents in general were ok with the proposals. The teachers went ballistic since they didn't want the change. Particularly those who live outside of the city and wanted the same holidays off as their out of city boundary DCs.

@Princessdebthe1st

The article appears to lack any kind of balance. They honestly could not find one person to argue against it? Or did the journalist lack the imagination to put forward a differing perspective?

I would not be in favour for a variety of practical and personal reasons but mainly because, as many PP have said, there isn't any evidence to say that "long" 6 week holidays are the issue. It is just a smokescreen.

There's plenty of evidence that the long summer holidays are a problem for children from lower socio-economic backgrounds. Here's one.

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0907568218779130

They'll never do it.

We're in France.
At my DC primary school its:
8.25am - 4.30pm Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday with 1hr40 lunchbreak

2 weeks off end Oct
2 weeks off at Christmas
2 weeks off in February
2 weeks off in April
9 weeks off in the summer

Loads of childcare provision for wednesdays (but also common for 1 parent not to work that day) and loads of holiday clubs.

My DC work very hard but the holidays are good. I would not want shorter holidays at all!

February and April holidays are different times depending on where you live in the country.

School staff will be unable to take time off at times when their school isn't on holiday meaning if holidays are staggered they may be in a situation that they can never go away as a family. DH and I work in different schools and dc go to different schools.

I honestly think if this happened it would push me to leave teaching.

I think it's a good thing. The 6 weeks is just ridiculously long. My kids get bored by week two. You can still have a holiday in those 4 weeks. I don't see the issue.

@sherrystrull

School staff will be unable to take time off at times when their school isn't on holiday meaning if holidays are staggered they may be in a situation that they can never go away as a family. DH and I work in different schools and dc go to different schools.

I honestly think if this happened it would push me to leave teaching.

I would too @sherrystrull. My DC are in wraparound from 7.30-5 each day. They have homework at clubs at weekend. The only time we spend time quality together is in the holidays. If I never spent a holiday with the. I would quit.

I still don’t how it would work in regards to GCSE and Alevel marking, the processing and taking of results, results days and then the admin for further and higher Ed.

@anuvamotherhood

I think it's a good thing. The 6 weeks is just ridiculously long. My kids get bored by week two. You can still have a holiday in those 4 weeks. I don't see the issue.

You’re only seeing it from a child’s perspective. Schools don’t shut for the 6 weeks. A lot goes on behind the scenes in the summer that parents aren’t privy to.

You can still have a holiday in those 4 weeks. I don't see the issue.

As others on the thread have said it makes taking holidays much more difficult. Arranging holidays at the same time as every other person with a child at school who also wants time off in those 4 weeks, would be much harder than it is now with 5 / 6 weeks (and different weeks for different areas) In addition to this holiday companies will definitely increase prices due to the increased demand.

The terms are supposed to be 8 weeks with a 2 week gap though. Your examples are 2 months, which is 9 weeks.

Well, no, varying between 8 weeks 3 days and 8 weeks 6 days, and some will include bank holidays.

I won't bore everyone with the working, but if you make it strictly 8 weeks + 2 weeks applied to this year's calendar, you are still left with 7 weeks in the final term stopping just before Christmas, and then you have the dilemma that if you follow that with a two week holiday you start the next school year later and will have an even shorter final term in December. It comes a bit closer to working if you don't bother about compensating for Bank Holidays, but that would still mean that you are not offering 8 week terms.

What they really need is more teachers so pupils get education more tailored to their ability/needs and teachers are under less pressure.

Anything else is unacceptable and just spin to make it appear they care about state education.

They have achieved their aim of putting the focus onto discussions over summer holidays rather than the state of education. When they get a kick back on summer holidays they can then blame parents for not wanting to change.