Dogs in offices

[ApplePenPineapplePen]

RANT: I do not understand how or why it became acceptable for people in office jobs to take dogs to work. A workplace is no place for pets. Get a dogsitter or don't have a pet or change job. I don't want their hounds near me i don't want their hairs on my office chair. Am I being unreasonable to think the starting position should be no animals in offices? Rant over.

More calmly, I have 2 reasons that I want to avoid dogs - a severe allergy plus a previous dog attack leaving me generally nervous and stressed around dogs. Work is aware of my allergy and now office returns are being discussed, some measures are in place to minimise my exposure.

But what if that weren't the case though and I just didn't like them? Is it for the individual to check if there are animals in the office before they accept the job? Or should employers disclose in job ads?

Of course I exclude guide dogs/hearing dogs or similar.

AIBU to think the default position should be no dogs in offices?

My DP works in a dog friendly office and likes dogs so not a massive issue for them, but one of the regular dogs (pre-Covid) used to piss and shit everywhere which wasn't pleasant. They do have one allergic coworker, so had to introduce measures to keep the worker and the dogs separate (which involves maintaining separate spaces, and using separate exists/entrances to the building). They've since moved to a different office setup, where the adjustments wont work, so they're having to scrap the dog friendly policy.

I'm a dog attack survivor so categorically would not work in a dog friendly office. If my current employer tried to introduce a dog friendly policy (and given our lack of space to ability to make adjusments), I'd be able to file a Human Rights claim against them (and likely win). I'm not in the UK but expect it'd be similar.

'People in tech companies do it need to see animals.'

What idea do you have of what tech companies are like?

People are allowed out! Plenty of opportunities to see animals!

@GappyValley

Yes, I am 100% certain that a dog allergy can raise to the level of a disability. Mine does not. However, I have other airborne and contact allergies that do qualify as a disability and my employer is required to make accommodations.

@NiceGerbil

'People in tech companies do it need to see animals.'

What idea do you have of what tech companies are like?

People are allowed out! Plenty of opportunities to see animals!

I meant do not - my fat fingers failed my predictive text

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

Why are people so angry at the thought of dogs in offices? Why are offices any less suitable for dogs than humans? Dogs like being around people. (I get not all people like dogs. But not all people like people).

Also if you have a dog you do have caring responsibilities and that should be recognised and respected just like any caring responsibilities. (There is a legal duty for animal welfare).

What about people who are allergic to dogs?

Who are frightened of dogs?

Who feel nervous around dogs?

Clients who are any of the above?

What about staff who are junior / less confident and don't feel able to speak up if they feel one of the above?

What if the dog owner loses their job? Dog owners should have provisions in place for care of their dog and have budgeted for them, so that them taking proper care of a dog isn't reliant on a dog friendly workplace. Too many people with full time jobs get dogs and don't plan properly which, as a dog lover myself, is upsetting and I think selfish of owners.

Can you really not see that those who are negatively affected by a dog in the office will have their experience of the working day massively unsettled? Good staff could leave or have to suffer every day.

Why do dog owners take priority over them?

Why are people smugly saying an allergy isn't a "protected disability". A quick Google will tell you that long term impairments (which allergies will fall under) are protected under the same act as those specifically named "protected" disabilities

@NiceGerbil haha! 😂

[quote 21Flora]@youvegottenminuteslynn Yeah, it is. I get paid really well to walk around the countryside and check assets with my daughter in the baby carrier and my dog.

Nobody else I work with cares, including the boss who suggested it. As long as my work gets done to a high standard my boss is happy, which she is.[/quote]
A job where you're mainly outside and working independently is quite different to a fully office based role though isn't it? But you still seem to think all office workers should by default be ok with dogs being in the office?

@21Flora are you going to answer the question about how you'd feel if a cat friendly policy was introduced, meaning your allergies flared up on a daily basis?

My boss and I both bring our dogs to work. They are both small non-shedding varieties. Mine in particular is very well behaved. We work at a hall of residence and many of the residents love coming to visit the dogs or will take them out on walks. Often they miss their own pets and it is lovely for them and the dogs. If we were hiring a new person they would need to be ok with the dogs, it wouldn’t be a surprise as the dogs sit in on the interviews. Very occasionally we have a resident who doesn’t like dogs and we will lock them in the office if that happens.

Dogs don't need to be there.

Their owners might need them there and the dogs may be a lot happier than stuck alone at home. Also plants and custard slices don’t ‘need’ to be there but they make offices nicer.

To the pp who asked about firelifts-

I'm no expert! But I have worked in a fair few buildings that had them.

Google tells me

'EN81-72 requires that buildings of a certain size have fire-fighting lifts. In the UK, British Buildings Standard BS9999 requires fire-fighting lifts in buildings that are >18 metres tall, or have basements >10 metres deep'

They are used so the firefighters can get up, without having to run up hundreds of stairs (with all their stuff) and maybe against the direction of people evacuating. And to help people who cannot manage getting down all those stairs, for whatever reason, out.

I've worked in some very tall buildings with 1000s of people in them. The idea of people going down with dogs when people are going as quick as they can/ maybe some panicking is not a good idea.

Someone with a guide or assistance dog would use the fire lift as having a blind person with a dog mixed in with the mass of people heading out down the stairs would be a risk.

They would go in the firelift.

As they are often v small and can take ages to get to the floors they are only available to those who really need them and would struggle to get out otherwise/ not be able to at all.

Having the dog owners use them would slow up evacuation for those who cannot use the stairs. I feel like that would not be reasonable tbh. Hardly anyone goes in the firelift IME.

Yes! I've seen a huge rise in this too. We hired someone in April 2020 and she turned up one day with her dog saying he wouldn't leave her alone so she just brought him in. No one else apart from me seemed to care so I kept my head down, but it's weird! But I've been to plenty of other offices where they have dogs, my husbands work have an office dog, and two team members take it in turns to have him at home?!? Weird. And I have a dog by the way, but he's a rescue and has a few weird quirks so he stays home!!

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

Dogs don't need to be there.

Their owners might need them there and the dogs may be a lot happier than stuck alone at home. Also plants and custard slices don’t ‘need’ to be there but they make offices nicer.

Unless they are support dogs, they don't "need" to be there.

Again, what if people have allergies or fears?

You mention custard slices - if a staff member was allergic to something different but equivalent, so a good item but one that contained nuts, people wouldn't be allowed to bring nuts in and used shared plates etc. Because allergies.

You mention plants - what if an office wanted to have flowers in the office during summer but staff members had bad hayfever? Again, it wouldn't be allowed (one would hope) due to the discomfort it would cause.

What if people wanted to bring in their pet tarantulas or snakes because they made them (the owner) happy to be around, but people were scared of them. Would that be allowed? I doubt it.

food item not good item that was meant to say...

@Ijustknowitstimetogo

Dogs don't need to be there.

Their owners might need them there and the dogs may be a lot happier than stuck alone at home. Also plants and custard slices don’t ‘need’ to be there but they make offices nicer.

No, dogs don't ever need to be in an office, assuming the business can run smoothly without a dog being in the vicinity. So unless he has a degree from Brunel University, an architect's will manage just find without Rover trotting about.

it's not the problem of the workplace when employees don't have their shit sorted out with their pet care. Saying "I need to bring my dog in" is no different to someone who hasn't sorted their childcare saying "I need to bring my baby in"

Plants and custard slices don't

• tend to trigger allergies or phobias
• being smells in and shit and piss on the carpet
• slather everywhere
• bark when you're on the phone to someone
• ratch in handbags for food
• bother lots of people who don't like to speak up

The above list are just examples from this thread of what people have had to put up with.

I'm actually getting quite embarrassed for people now with these stupid statements. I'm hoping they're being obtuse rather than serious.

There are many, many workplaces that allow dogs, and many people specifically get such a job before getting a dog. There are enough of these jobs that it would be possible to get another job if one withdrew its dog-friendly policy, so I don’t think it’s irresponsible to get a dog and assume you will be able to take him to work under those circumstances.

If a company decides to allow dogs in the workplace and abides by all legal requirements in doing so (and believe me, the legal departments of some of these companies have a bigger budget than some small countries, so I’m going to guess they’re better equipped to judge this than people on an Internet forum), then people can take that into account when choosing to apply to work there.

Why is that disgusting to people who don’t work at a company that the company would offer a perk that people who do work there like? And many people really value this perk! They can go up to the agility course on the roof of the building and play with their dog at lunch, chat with other dog owners, and just really relax. It makes those people happier and healthier.

Surely instead of finding that scandalous you just find a workplace that offers you the package that most appeals to you and let others do the same?

@PippyPinky

There are many, many workplaces that allow dogs, and many people specifically get such a job before getting a dog. There are enough of these jobs that it would be possible to get another job if one withdrew its dog-friendly policy, so I don’t think it’s irresponsible to get a dog and assume you will be able to take him to work under those circumstances.

If a company decides to allow dogs in the workplace and abides by all legal requirements in doing so (and believe me, the legal departments of some of these companies have a bigger budget than some small countries, so I’m going to guess they’re better equipped to judge this than people on an Internet forum), then people can take that into account when choosing to apply to work there.

Why is that disgusting to people who don’t work at a company that the company would offer a perk that people who do work there like? And many people really value this perk! They can go up to the agility course on the roof of the building and play with their dog at lunch, chat with other dog owners, and just really relax. It makes those people happier and healthier.

Surely instead of finding that scandalous you just find a workplace that offers you the package that most appeals to you and let others do the same?

But what if you already work somewhere, are a valued and hardworking employee and then the policy is implemented?

I can't see how people genuinely think this is fair. I would respect it more if people said well yeah it's not really fair but I'm glad my work does it because it suits me...

Well, I agree that it wouldn’t be fair (or even legal in many places) to spring that on someone.

I’m just taking objection to people who insist dogs should never be in any office environment when I’ve seen it work beautifully and very beneficially on some sites for some groups of people who all knew what they were getting into up front.

Why is that disgusting to people who don’t work at a company that the company would offer a perk that people who do work there like? And many people really value this perk!
Because its potentially discriminatory. Any employer with a dog friendly policy either needs to be able to make reasonable adjustments, to keep the allegic/phobic worker and the dog in separate areas, or need to be prepared to terminate the policy if an allegic/phobic candidate is the best for a role.

@PippyPinky

Well, I agree that it wouldn’t be fair (or even legal in many places) to spring that on someone.

I’m just taking objection to people who insist dogs should never be in any office environment when I’ve seen it work beautifully and very beneficially on some sites for some groups of people who all knew what they were getting into up front.

But those two paragraphs contradict each other... unless it's a startup so everyone knows from day one that dogs will be around.

Ah. Having read a post upthread a bit. Some of this is about lockdown dogs isn't it?!

There's been an explosion in dog ownership round here. Now people are having to go back to work they are suddenly thinking shit what to do with the dog?

Taking it on the tube in rush hour with a load of others doing the same and then having them around the place in high rise offices is a terrible idea.

@NiceGerbil

Ah. Having read a post upthread a bit. Some of this is about lockdown dogs isn't it?!

There's been an explosion in dog ownership round here. Now people are having to go back to work they are suddenly thinking shit what to do with the dog?

Taking it on the tube in rush hour with a load of others doing the same and then having them around the place in high rise offices is a terrible idea.

It must be. It certainly never seemed to be a mainstream thing before.

So people with allergies should just live with it? The question isn’t whether you or anyone else loves dogs in offices, it’s whether it’s reasonable to allow dogs in offices considering not everyone loves them and many have allergies.

It’s totally not the future btw — not sure where you got that idea.

To be fair, the companies I am familiar with are very young companies. But I’ve seen older companies set up a building or section that is dog friendly when they move premises, and it all seems to work out pretty well. I’ve never seen the free-for-all described on this thread. I’ve not seen dogs relieving themselves indoors, there are dog-free areas, if a particular dog doesn’t allow work to be done or a particular task doesn’t lend itself to having a dog present, you would be expected to find somewhere else for the dog to be. There is usually a very healthy doggie daycare industry in the immediate area where people can drop dogs for part of the day if hat makes sense.