AIBU to think Brexit voters did not foresee the gov shafting UK farmers

[SancerreSunsets]

During the build up to the 2016 referendum I saw several massive boards advertising Leave in local farming fields ... as a pro-European, it was the sight of these boards that made me worry about the potential outcome of the vote and my fears became reality.
Now it's possible that Johnson's gov will agree a trade deal with Australia that will flood our market with cheap Australian produce (that is not subjected to the same standards as in EU countries). It's even being suggested that this will make farming in the UK unviable and the gov will have to pay farmers off! This seems mental! Brexit voters I know are keen to buy British produce. Will they and the Brexit voting farmers now being to complain about the Brexit they're being given? They might be listened to more than Remain voters ... we tried for years are generally ignored.

@SancerreSunsets

I'm also concerned about food miles ... how is importing food from Australia, rather than buying British produce, or French/Spanish/Italian/Dutch etc. compatible with a green agenda?

It's not just about food miles. It's about food production. As @InTheHeatOfTheSun says, standards and carbon production in some EU countries don't bear much scrutiny.

Food standards was one of my biggest concerns with Brexit. Farmers here presumably won't be able to maintain standards and still compete with countries not obliged to restrict use of antibiotics, pesticides etc? Didn't the government reassure us at one point that food standards would be maintained?

@WomenAreBornNotWorn

If you care about welfare standards and air miles probably best to stop eating animals from any continent.

Indeed. And at least the UK can now ban the live export of animals! We couldn't do that in the EU.

@ThursdayWeld

Does anybody fancy answering my questions, at all?

will flood our market with cheap Australian produce (that is not subjected to the same standards as in EU countries)

Is Australian meat of lower quality than EU meat?

In what way is zero tariff from Australia different from zero tariff from EU? EU is a lot bigger!

Australia allows the use artificial growth hormones that are currently banned within the EU.

They also operate cow mega farms with up to 5000 head of cattle.

Avg herd size in the UK is 140.

UK farmers cannot complete with this.

Here is a trade press article on the differences between UK and non EU country's food safety rules. UK rules should be easy as EU rules, as that was what was in place.
It's not pleasant reading.
www.thegrocer.co.uk/sourcing/how-do-uk-food-standards-differ-from-the-rest-of-the-world/645635.article

Thank you @Hyperion100! I can see that Aus farmers can have much larger farms.

Are Australians not worried about eating the growth hormones, then?

No one in my farming family or many farmers we know voted for brexit. Polling suggested they were split 50:50 much like the rest of us. A lot of ignorant remainers on this thread.

Some info here too on variances in standards including Australia: www.which.co.uk/news/2020/09/brexit-trade-deals-how-uk-food-standards-compare-to-the-world/

Also, once Australia is granted tariff free deal, every other country will be after the same.

It'll be a race to the bottom for the cheapest product.

[quote turkeyboots]Here is a trade press article on the differences between UK and non EU country's food safety rules. UK rules should be easy as EU rules, as that was what was in place.
It's not pleasant reading.
www.thegrocer.co.uk/sourcing/how-do-uk-food-standards-differ-from-the-rest-of-the-world/645635.article[/quote]
So according to that article, lots of things that are banned or strict in the UK aren't so strict or banned in the EU. So what's the difference between importing from the EU or Australia?

The farmers and fishermen wanted to be shafted.

@ThursdayWeld

Does anybody fancy answering my questions, at all?

will flood our market with cheap Australian produce (that is not subjected to the same standards as in EU countries)

Is Australian meat of lower quality than EU meat?

In what way is zero tariff from Australia different from zero tariff from EU? EU is a lot bigger!

I do know that sheep are often subjected to mulesing (cutting away skin and flesh around the tail) in Australia, which is considered animal cruelty by the RSPCA. If you’re bothered about welfare standards, Australia needs close study.

UK animal welfare tends to be higher than in the EU. But food hygiene rules are mostly
the same between the UK and EU.

Animal welfare might make you feel sick at the thought, but food hygiene standards may land you in hospital.

I live in a very rural area with a high influx of Eastern European workers. I know quite a lot of farmers. Most of them are on small, family run farms trying to make a living.

I don't personally know a single farmer who voted in favour of Brexit. They were happy to employ Polish/Lithanian/Latvian workers. I think deciding Farmers voted for Brexit is the sort of crappy generalisation both sides come up with, but if it makes you feel happier to decide that all farmers are rich, thick wankers who voted Leave then you go for it.

Lazy generalisations about entire groups of people seem to be a particularly stupid effect of Brexit from both sides.

Is Australian meat of lower quality than EU meat?

Yes, it is produced using growth hormones that are banned in the EU (and in the UK).

In what way is zero tariff from Australia different from zero tariff from EU? EU is a lot bigger!

The comparative size of Australia and the EU is irrelevant with regard to tariffs.

Australia's production costs are lower, in part because standards are lower, resulting in the wholesale price of the meat being lower. This puts British farmers out of business as the supermarkets and meat product producers (meat pies, sausages, microwave meals etc) will buy Australian meat instead of British.

Consumers will see no difference in price, as the supply chain (wholesalers, meat factories and supermarkets) will share the cost savings between them and pocket the difference as extra profits.

If they didn't foresee it, they were stupid. If they did foresee it and still voted for it, they deserve to go out of business.

Trouble is, we'll all bear the cost of it. Like everything else the 52% have inflicted on us.

They don’t give a shit because all that matters is sovereignty. We could regress to the Middle Ages for all they care, as long as we’ve “taken back control”.

Then again, many would argue that a powerful reason for the need to take back control of our borders was to stop a regression to the middle ages.

The right wing narrative for years has been that farmers are given huge European subsidies in return for doing no real work. So I suspect any thoughts that did got through Leaver's heads were along the lines of 'Do them good to have to work for their living!'

A lot of the narratives that brought about Brexit were come up with and accepted by the mainstream long before we joined the EU in the first place. Foreigners taking our jobs/women, deserving poor vs scroungers, anyone can be rich if they just work hard... from that point of view, it's not at all surprising that we've ended up here.

So according to that article, lots of things that are banned or strict in the UK aren't so strict or banned in the EU. So what's the difference between importing from the EU or Australia?

@ThursdayWeld You seem not to have understood the article, the main point of which is that agriculture in non-EU countries, particularly the USA and Australia, does not meet EU or UK standards in many areas, including hormones in food and the use of chemicals on crops and animal feed.

The older ones will have seen this coming given that one of the main arguments against joining the (then) EEC was that it would mean ending the free trade food agreements with Oz and NZ.

It's all about union jack patterned optics. The Brexit ultras were happy to throw fishermen under the bus once they'd served their purpose as a useful prop, and they're clearly happy to do the same to British farmers too, all so Liz Truss can smugly claim 'look at the great deal we've now got with Australia' and the Express can ejaculate with patriotic joy. The govt know it will be a shit deal but logic and reason have long since left the building.

@Hyperion100

Also, once Australia is granted tariff free deal, every other country will be after the same.

It'll be a race to the bottom for the cheapest product.

British farmers have been fighting against cheap food imports since Corn Laws of the 1820s and they have always lost. Cheap food trumps everything. As for the differing health standards, does the US/Oz/NZ have a higher rate of food poisoning than the UK?

As for the differing health standards, does the US/Oz/NZ have a higher rate of food poisoning than the UK?

The US certainly does.

I laughed long and hard at a radio interview with a farmer who freely admitted voting for Brexit, and was stunned to find his subsidies have since stopped and he's going bankrupt.