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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AWBU - or are DH employers?

34 replies

MrsWarleggan · 18/05/2021 10:50

DH took an "anything is better than nothing" job after losing his job at the beginning of 2nd lockdown.

Hours set 9.30-6.00. He does overtime everyday finishing at around 8.30. Whilst the hours aren't great it means that I can go into work earlier get all my hours done for school pick up and DH is around in the morning to do drop offs.There is another guy who does and earlier shift about 4.00-3.00ish.

His bosses have come down this morning and said its costing too much money having you work the shifts you are at the moment so we are going to have two permanent shifts. 6-4 and 2-10 and you will work them alternately. Oh and by the way this starts next week.

In DH interview there was no discussion about shifts possibly changing, these were the hours, job done.

The change in shifts will impact us massively, I won't be in the office long enough to complete my hours so will have to work from home in the evenings to complete them and we will incur a significant raise in childcare costs for breakfast and after school clubs which at the moment we can't afford for his early shifts.

Infuriatingly DH has a history of throwing his toys out the pram work wise: "I don't want to do it, end of" it's pointless having a conversation with him about it because he gets pissed off as soon as I say they don't give a shit about you personally, don't care about childcare, they are paying you to do a job and run a business.

I've told him we will just have to suck it up for now and he will just have to look for another job...... That wasn't good enough for him because...."I don't want to do it, its not what I've signed up for"

Can his employer just turn round and make significant shift pattern changes without consultation?

OP posts:

Soubriquet · 18/05/2021 10:52

I think as long as the employers are giving your dh his contracts hours per week, then yeah they can change it without much notice

ChessieFL · 18/05/2021 10:56

Was his original shift pattern in his contract? If it was, I don’t think they can change it without consultation. If it wasn’t, then yes I think they can change it. And with less than 2 years’ service he has no employment rights (except discrimination) so if he refuses I think they can just get rid of him anyway.

Moonshine11 · 18/05/2021 10:57

Depends what was stated in his contract regarding shifts

LittleOwl153 · 18/05/2021 11:00

How does the other guy feel? If he'd prefer a fixed shift could they agree between them not to alternate shifts? Or at least in the short term so he has time to look for something else. That would help a bit I assume although not ideal but I think they'd be pushing it not accept that given the notice period.

Proudboomer · 18/05/2021 11:06

My contact just gives the number of hours I am contracted for and they can rota me in for any time and any day. If his contact is the same then he either sucks it up, looks for another job or chucks it in and hopes for the best.
I would go for option two.

Bluntness100 · 18/05/2021 11:08

He needs to actually read his contract of employment. But normally yes, of course they can do this.

LittleOwl153 · 18/05/2021 11:09

It's still an average of 11hours a shift (10hrs one week 12hrs the next)... does he get paid enhanced overtime rates? If its standard time then I'm not seeing that they save.
Could he and his shift mate come up with an alternative pattern which sees them both getting 11hrs within the timeframe of their working hours which fits with childcare to and suggest that? A fixed shift sounds like it might work better if his shift mate agrees.
11hr days suggests they work 4 days a week - what happens with the other 1/3 days?

Original poster

MrsWarleggan · 18/05/2021 11:20

I've just dug ou
t his contract and it's got his specific hours and then says "These normal hours of work may vary to meet the needs of the company" So he's screwed basically!!

The other guy is fuming. He starts early because he has a 3 hour round trip (without traffic) to get there and back.

OP posts:

Bluntness100 · 18/05/2021 11:32

Yes that’s normally what they say. Companies have to retain the flexibility to run the business successfully. He can try explaining it’s difficult for him, but ultimately the business needs come before his personal ones.

Frankie4me · 18/05/2021 11:38

@MrsWarleggan

I've just dug ou t his contract and it's got his specific hours and then says "These normal hours of work may vary to meet the needs of the company" So he's screwed basically!!

The other guy is fuming. He starts early because he has a 3 hour round trip (without traffic) to get there and back.

Would the other guy agree to work the early shift every week and your husband could do the late shift? Maybe not ideal from a family life perspective, but would give you some stability for childcare etc until he can find another job.

Thelnebriati · 18/05/2021 11:51

"These normal hours of work may vary to meet the needs of the company" lets them vary the hours to meet a demand, not radically change them. Its not a watertight get out clause, 'vary' means partial change.

Talk to ACAS.

Melitza · 18/05/2021 11:55

As others say just agree with other guy he does early and your dh does lates.

Hankunamatata · 18/05/2021 11:56

If other guy if fuming would he do the 6-4 and dh do the 2-10? Not ideal but at least would free him up for morning.

finallymightbehappening · 18/05/2021 11:57

Doesn't matter if it's fair or not he hasn't been there long enough to have any real employment rights in the absence of
Discrimination. So in short, practically speaking they can do what they like.

newnortherner111 · 18/05/2021 11:59

I think given the lack of recourse given short service, he is to use a phrase, stuffed.

Bluntness100 · 18/05/2021 12:12

@Thelnebriati

Talk to ACAS.

Um yes it does. If meeting demand means radically changing them. It doesn’t say you can only change them a little.

And as he’s been there very little time, even if he did have rights, which based on what’s presented he’d not , he’d not have them yet anyways.

mabelandivy · 18/05/2021 12:12

Depends on whether the shifts were clearly stipulated in his contract ie 8-5, for instance or whether as hours. If hours, then there is not a lot you can do. If stated then they would need to go through a process.

Original poster

MrsWarleggan · 18/05/2021 12:17

By him agreeing to do the later shift in effectively wipes out any option of overtime. IWhilst yes, overtime is a privilege and not a guarantee it sticks in his throat that others will have the ability to do it and not him.

I also think there is going to be a major H&S aspect as on the later shift (past 8pm) he would be the only person in the building. He's an engineer using machinery.
He is going to have

OP posts:

Original poster

MrsWarleggan · 18/05/2021 12:18

@mabelandivy

Definitely specific hours spelt out.

OP posts:

Brefugee · 18/05/2021 12:50

I'd be interested to know how 2 guys doing the same number of hours but at different times will save the company money.

It's shit but tbh I'd just say suck it up until he can find something else.

blobby10 · 18/05/2021 13:17

MrsWarleggan we have a factory and aren't allowed to have anyone working machinery on their own. Aside from it being a H & S issue, our insurance company won't cover us in the event of an accident or incident. Agree with the other posters who have said ask ACAS as I didn't think a company can change hours permanently just like that without consultation and notice but it does depend on his contract of employment wording.

dancinfeet · 18/05/2021 14:01

I think they can. I had a part time retail job with fixed hrs 9.30-2.00pm. They decided after me working that shift for 4 years that they were going to change me onto the afternoon shift 1.30- 5pm. The problem was, I had another job that started at 4pm- 8.30pm, and they knew this, but changed my shift anyway and moved another staff member onto the morning shift and I ended up having to quit as I couldn't work the new hours.

LittleOwl153 · 18/05/2021 14:30

I would get onto the union / acas about the operating machinery whilst alone I the building I doubt that works with health and safety.

Bluntness100 · 18/05/2021 14:33

Op do you both need the money? I suspect it’s over for him in this role but he will be effectively resigning which will impact benefits and when he can claim them, if he needs money then he possibly needs to think carefully

I’m also not sure I believe they would have one engineer alone in the building for two hours. Maybe he’s telling you that.

Original poster

MrsWarleggan · 18/05/2021 14:45

@Bluntness100

No its definitely happened before, he forgot his dinner one evening so I drove it up to him and he was the only one in the building. A one off, as someone had to leave urgently.

We do need the money, currently in the middle of purchasing our 1st home so he wouldn't be stupid enough to leave unless he had another job to go too!

OP posts:

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