To think that childcare costs should come out of pre tax income?

[Geraldinethegiraffe]

I know many mothers who say that after paying for childcare they pretty much break even.
Some of them end up being SAHMs because of this. Or their partners put pressure on them because they earn less than childcare costs.
So why can’t childcare cost come out of pre tax income as a work enabler? Some other countries do this.

If no-one makes that lifestyle choice, no-one will be paying for your pension and free hospital treatment when you are older, Chloemol. We need a balance of young and old in society. Birth rates are falling all over the world in countries where girls can stay in education.

Maybe govt should investigate Childcare Loans, where parents borrow money for childcare and pay extra tax once youngest is above a certain age. System would be similar to student loans eg. paying extra 9% on earnings over £25k.

You already get tax relief on childcare vouchers.

I agree that there should be more flexibility about them though - childcare is an enabler of work and tax paying so should be encouraged.

That said given the climate emergency, I don't think the state should subsidise childcare for more than one child (unless multiple birth).

So tax relief for childcare on first child(ren) but not subsequent ones.

Presumably there’ll soon be a group of people paying back both the higher level student loans and for childcare at the same time - now that would be expensive!

@looptheloopinahulahoop - the childcare voucher scheme closed (to new people) in 2018.

Tax free child care, we have used it pay for summer camps too which is a nice bonus.

The government pays 20% and there's child benefit on top. You don't get the 20% if you earn over 100k but to be honest if you do you don't really need the government help. It's also 100k per person, not combined income. I don't feel hard done by the amount of help I get towards my child.

I 100% agree with ChocOrange1

You can do this in the US with something called a dependent care flexible spending account, up to $5000 per year for a married couple.

www.fsafeds.com/explore/dcfsa

[quote Geraldinethegiraffe]@PacifyLulu I would consider moving to Scandinavia, Germany, Portugal, Italy or Canada… all places which we as a family don’t need visas for because my husband is not british.

@trixies totally with you on not wanting MORE births. But keeping births+immigration at population replacement level is pretty important if we don’t want to saddle future generations with massive economic and social issues.
If we want to minimise our environmental impact we can start by changing the way we consume, not by making it increasingly difficult for average families to live well![/quote]
Well, we aren't better off for childcare in Canada, I can tell you that now. Even in Quebec it can be difficult to get a place, and the quality is middling.

Immigration isn't an answer either. Long term the world population is stabilising, and past a certain point immigration tends to destabilise communities. A lot of social justice issues attach to it as well.

Slow decline can be managed which is probably the ideal in a place like the UK. But it doesn't mean that the community shouldn't invest in the next generation, they will still be benefitting from them.

I agree it should, and mine are grown.

@RedMarauder
I “like” education too. I also like benefits that reach the people that need them. Child benefit for every child was IMO something very special and far more important than tax breaks for childcare.

I can't believe that "tax free childcare" actually lives up to its name for most people. You'd need to be a basic rate tax payer first of all, and then your yearly childcare bill would need to be under £10k (or else the part paid by the govt is not 20%). It's a small help but that's it really.

If our (mine and my DH's) childcare costs came out of my (say) pre tax income, I would save hundreds of pounds a month instead of the measly £167. So yes please!

@looptheloopinahulahoop my daughter was born in September 2018 and due to when my DP employers pay roll is run, is one of the last children on the scheme. It costs the government more than the new system.

[quote 5zeds]@RedMarauder
I “like” education too. I also like benefits that reach the people that need them. Child benefit for every child was IMO something very special and far more important than tax breaks for childcare.[/quote]
Tax breaks for childcare would enable more social-economic disadvantage families to take advantage of early years education. (And yes it is education as well as childcare. Even the government recognises that.)

Also the system should be like in other countries where the more you earn the less you are subsided.

TBH we subsidise everything else to do with children, I don't see why god quality early years child care isn't subsidised too.

It would do WONDERS for keeping women in work and also do wonders for underprivileged children as well if there was something like 40 hours of free, good quality child care a week for everyone, no matter what the income level.

I think the government recognises the advantage of tax payers working and paying tax. Children do better with one parent at home. I’d like to see child benefit encouraging more sahp not longer hours in early years care.

I really don’t think tax free childcare vouchers should be seen as a ‘benefit’. Childcare is a direct cost of going to work. If you are a sole trader you are taxed on your income less expenses. This is a vast, truly vast expense of going to work. Why do we educate women at school, uni etc, then give them all the opportunities to have great careers, but then have childcare so eye wateringly expensive that many highly skilled women (and it mostly is women)have to give up careers to have kids? We need to encourage these skilled women back into the workforce if at all possible. We’re not paying for their childcare, just accepting that it ought to be deducted pre tax.

I really don’t think tax free childcare vouchers should be seen as a ‘benefit’. Childcare is a direct cost of going to work

An annual season ticket is a direct cost of going to work, can I have a tax break on that?

Why?

Surely the answer to a lot of the points above is for each couple to give equal weight to each of their careers? If a couple can’t do that within their marriage then why should it be up to the state / tax payer to support someone’s career?

Also, OP, the wonderful thing about having choices of where to live is that if this system doesn’t work for you, you can pick another. Unless the overall package of living somewhere else doesn’t work for you?

@5zeds

I think the government recognises the advantage of tax payers working and paying tax. Children do better with one parent at home. I’d like to see child benefit encouraging more sahp not longer hours in early years care.

Children do better with one parent at home.

Source?

@Geraldinethegiraffe Just like people can claim work expenses before paying tax, why should childcare be any different?

Very few expenses can be claimed pre tax for employees.

I agree it should all be tax free. Petrol for work travel- tax free. Tools for work- tax free. Childcare so you can work? Oooh, it was your choice to have a child. Shouldn't you be a sahm anyway? But if so it's your fault if your husband leaves you and you have no income or pension....