To think that Bernard Randall getting sacked and reported is a sign of very scary times ahead?

[FencesandFlowers]

I've NC'd for this as it's obviously a divisive topic.

I consider myself liberal and left-wing, live in a predominantly left-wing city and have mostly left wing friends. An acquaintance's DS is also currently going through gender reassignment surgery.

I've just watched Bernard Randall's sermon however and think it comes across as pretty fair and reasonable. AIBU to think the way he's been treated since is a very worrying sign that institutionalised woke culture is now completely eroding any autonomy of thought?

fb.watch/5wDGEr7Iel/

Not as scary as random links from a namechanger

Ain't nobody clicking that

Well, I just read about him in The Guardian this morning, Googled the speech in question and this was the first link!

You're not sure of your position though, hence the name change. Name changes are normally reserved for people asking for opinions on a matter where they have to give personal details, or are deliberately trying to stir up trouble.

I'm definitely not trying to stir up trouble!

But people can be very mean and judgy on here sometimes, hence the NC.

Without clicking on that link and going on Google...

Regardless of how I feel about his appalling views, it sounds like he breached the terms of his employment, so his employer was correct to take action (although it appears the dismissal was overturned and he's now on a final warning).

(No one should be preaching hate and intolerance on to impressionable minds.)

@EverNapping but where in his sermon is he preaching hate and intolerance?

Have you listened to it or read it?

There's nothing too overt in his sermon I'll accept.

But

1. the term activists doesn't sit well. There are negative connotations to the term and it's used as a way to diminish people's attempts to build a better, more tolerant and understanding world, not to mention give them an air of extremism.

2. there's his position on transphobia and homophobia. As any dictionary will tell you, it's common usage that makes a definition, not what it says in the dictionary - otherwise our words would never have evolved into the words we use today.

Homophobia and transphobia no longer mean phobias.

He plays them as a "bigoted and bullying way" to shut down dissent.

Rather they are the language we use to label the bullying and bigoted attitudes/words/behaviours in order to call them out and challenge them.

He was telling the children "You can safely ignore these uses, although that takes real moral courage, I know."

Replace "homo/transphobia" with racist and see how that works.

“It is perfectly legitimate to think that marriage should only properly be understood as being a lifelong exclusive union of a man and a woman… You may perfectly properly believe that, as an ideal, sexual activity belongs only within such marriage, and that therefore any other kind is morally problematic.”

If this is an example of his preaching I think the times ahead are only scary if you lean towards the homophobic.

@FencesandFlowers

I'm definitely not trying to stir up trouble!

But people can be very mean and judgy on here sometimes, hence the NC.

Makes me less inclined to engage with you, or click on links, sorry. I don't trust people who name change for that sort of reason.

@SaskiaRembrandt

“It is perfectly legitimate to think that marriage should only properly be understood as being a lifelong exclusive union of a man and a woman… You may perfectly properly believe that, as an ideal, sexual activity belongs only within such marriage, and that therefore any other kind is morally problematic.”

If this is an example of his preaching I think the times ahead are only scary if you lean towards the homophobic.

If that's what he said I agree with you.

Yeah, it's very disturbing.

The ability to have respectful dialogue with people you have significant disagreement with, over really important things, is a central need for a liberal democracy.

The ability to think differently about the most accepted and mainstream and everyone-agrees-with-this viewpoint, and engage with it critically, is essential to rational thought and discourse.

Without these things, without people recognising their importance and being embolden to think that way, you don't have a viable democracy or a viable knowledge based society.

I'm not sure when the moment was that people suddenly thought, "Oh, it's only important to have respectful social discourse and critical thought about unimportant things" but it's a stupid as shit idea.

Hard to remember those heady days when civil liberties unions protected the rights of white suprematists to freedom of speech.

I still feel the best thing to counter a speach like that is with 'and those are the very strong views of Bernard but lots more people have stronger views that marriage is ... and those people have the full protection of the law'

I would have agreed with some of your points, but the term "woke culture" is very tiring to see.

@skirk64

You're not sure of your position though, hence the name change. Name changes are normally reserved for people asking for opinions on a matter where they have to give personal details, or are deliberately trying to stir up trouble.

When it comes to the 'gender debate', name changes are for women who don't want to lose their jobs because they believe women should not be discriminated against on the basis of their sex. That alone should be enough to give anyone pause and realise that we have a very serious problem here, but apparently not.

Some students and staff had expressed to him that they felt railroaded into accepting ideologies which were at odds with their religious beliefs. His sermon was about competing ideologies and how nobody has to accept an ideology which clashes with their own. He also stressed the importance of debate and not descending into personal insult. I think you are right. It is appalling that he was dismissed for telling students and staff this