How to stop being unreasonable...

[MoreSpamThanGlam]

YIABU

We have been through hell as a family, the loss of our business, loss of our home, illness, a baby etc etc.

Throughout the last 5 years my husband has told me to trust him and he wont let us down.

After a major case of PND I finally got my head together, have found us somewhere permanent to live (after 2 movews in 6 months), encouraged my husband to get a good salaried job (and chose the right position).

I am now in control of our finances and am setting out a routine for the kids.

My husband now leaves home at 7.30 (I drive him to the station) gets home at 7.45pm, eats his dinner and goes to bed. he does nothing.

I went away for 2 weeks to visit a girlfriend and I asked him to do a list of things in the new house (stairgate, showerhead, a mirror up - not exactly build an extension). He did not do one. NOT ONE.

He does nothing with the kids at the weekend unless I suggest it and organise it.

NOW

I am organised and feel as if I am functioning as a single parent and my anger and resentment is at boiling point. I have tried talking to him (can he at least put his pants in the laundry bin). He always says that he will change but he doesnt.

he has this job in the city now and acts like he is really a big shot - so arrogant. Always waffling on about his boss and their "blue sky thinking lingo".

I feel like i am doing all the work, parenting, organising, sorting, cleaning etc.

I cant stop myself from digging and sniping at him (so much is my hatred). I have asked him to leave but he wont.

Please tell me how to stop being so spiteful and nasty. im beginning to hate the person i have turned into.

Sorry for the rant...thanks for staying!

MSTG

Do you still love your husband? If you still love him, then I'm sure you WILL find a way.

I am suffering with pnd atm (ds2 is 7mths) and if me and dh are both honest, he doesn't know how to handle it. Dh once said to me that he didn't feel like a proper husband if he couldn't support me emotionally. Can you sit down and talk to him?

That and him being a selfish arse Xenia. Dump him, go and work in the city/or set up an internet business, get paid help, and a man that will worship you..

Err am I missing the point here?

Not once anywhere has anyone (OP included)mentioned any form of emotional attachment between the two of them

Ok they've got kids
He's got a job
A whole load of wohm/sahm hoo ha

BUT (and sounding like a very bad chat show host here) Where is the LOVE ?

Without that it doesn't matter if he picks up his pants (he should but we all know that)Or acts a prat {he is}

morespam Sorry to be blunt but you need to think about what you really want from this relationship because at the moment it sounds like your're just existing.

Sorry for the cod psychology crap finding it difficult to write this without sounding overly harsh IYKWIM

And Xenia - it is possoble to have an equitable relationship when only one partner actually gets paid. I share your frustration with women who don't work and leave all financial organising to their husbands - I know a number of wives of my husband's clients who are content to leave everything in their dh'shands and accept and allowance, and don't even know how much their dh earns, but it's not the case for all SAHM's. DH and I made a joint decision that I would stay at home, we make joint decisions about all financial matters (I actually know more about the state of our finances than he does) and we make joint decsions about the bringing up of our children, his career moves and any other major issues. Giving up work does not have to equal giving up any element of power in your relationship

x post with runny and agree totally with the respect post prufrock

A few years back, Dh and I got into a pattern where we each felt we were doing "everything" and the other "nothing." This was complicated by the fact that I was working part-time, so the balance of household stuff was skewed towards me and it was therefore harder to be sure if he was skiving or not! Anyway, in the end, we both agreed we wanted to be friends again and not be always sniping at each other. With that as a base-line, we had a calm discussion, laid a few ground-rules (pants in laundry? No excuses for that one!)and agreed to recognise that for 95% of the time, we were both either working (for money for us), dealing with the dcs, or doing house-y stuff, and that all 3 activities were for the benefit of the famiy, and therefore equally valuable. And now, of course, we never fall out about anything! Ooh! What are these pants doing on the floor?

Yes Yaddayule I concur, if there is no love then the relationship is just a shackle.

yaddayule - that is what I have been saying. It isn't the practical stuff, it is the emotional distance that is the problem.

Xenia, I despair of you sometimes. This isn't about who does what and who earns the most. Money isn't everything. It is about two people who have forgotten why they got married in the first place. Letting somebody else run their house and bring up their children isn't going to get make them remember.

Resentment is vile isn't it. So all consuming.

I think you just need to concentrate on your life, which is exactly what you are doing. The Job Centre back to work help should be really good (was just telling misdee, a friend of mine took their help and it really helped her get back to work), I am sure you will love getting into doing nursing and then you will have something else to think about rather than him being a twat and you may find, the resentment eases slightly and you can then decide where your relationship goes from there.

I do hate it when people have this 'I'm too good to help out at home' attitude. I think it's OK to say 'household chores are death boring, I wish we didn't have to do them' and really hate doing them and put off doing them but I think it's quite another thing to think you are too farking high up the food chain to push a child on a swing.

Neicie : apologies missed the emotional distance part.. you're quite right {especially despairing of Xenia's cut and paste jobbies!)

Actually, just read all the posts that were added while I was doing "everything" as usual..... and MoreSpam sounds as if this whole stuff isn't actually just about what dh does or does not do around the house. You sound very very angry and resentful (not surprisingly after the time you've had ) and you're aiming it all at him. (not defending him, just an observation!). Is this mend-able? Do you want it to be? If you do, then get some counselling for the two of you. If not, then also get some counselling, for your own sake, so you don't attract someone similar into your life down the line.

have sex with hubby - always make me feel better!

i'm the other way round, i work full-time and i'm envious of my hubby at home....

but i look after the children when i'm home, i orgainse trrips out for the whole family, kids coming over, sleep overs, do washing-up/washing on the weekend etc

and it sounds like your hubby doesn't make the effort on the weekends even.

It's OK yaddayule - I didn't use the word 'love' which is really what it all boils down to as you say.

I know they should love each other but I think it would be an improvement if the OP didn't hate her husband at the moment! That said, they say there is a thin line between love and hate - maybe better hate than total indifference

morespamthanglam I have an existence just like you, only (at dh's insistence really) I have gone back to work. It wasn't the answer as I end up doing a 4 day a week job and running the house as well. Like you I am boiling with resentment the whole time (particularly in the evenings when I am tired) and would love to get out of the mindset of being resentful and sniping at him. the alternative seems to be to do everything without complaining, and I just don't have the energy to do that (am also pg with my 5th child).

One way my dh is different is that he does interact with the children, but in a very shouty and authoritarian way imo.

I am thinking of going to counselling by myself as dh doesn't have time/inclination to go, so that I can get some coping mechanisms in place and/or a sense of perspective - perhaps you should try this too?

But why do women do that - do work and home things. Why do they tolerate it even for a day? I just don't understand the mind set. Why not just let the cleaning not be done if he's not doing it? Surely you just enable the behaviour you want to change by everytime doing whatever it is has to be done yourself. Once you've had 3 teenagers like me you'll see the same point in operation. If they know you'll do everything for them they just won't do it.

Xenia, how do you stop it? I would love for it not to happen. I know that I am enabling his behaviour. if I don't do things, no-one does them. Please tell me how to stop it because like MSTG I don't know what to do.

We get horrible demands through the post, we lose money, our house is dirty, washing doesn't get done, the children don't do homework, they don't have their hair brushed for school. I have no idea how to get him to do it. Nagging doesn't work, not doing it myself doesn't work. I feel that I may as not have him in the house - I can't tolerate another body to look after, who doesn't seem to provide me with any actual or moral support.

To some extent I pay other people to do things but I haven't got a full time pa/housekeeper/nanny to help me.

Sorry MSTG this isn't much help to you - my dh sounds just like yours. Very successful at work and apparently indispensible there.. I can't get dh to see how serious this is. complain about it I suppose

I meant to say that the answer is to do everything and not complain about it.

The biggest problem for Spamglam and most of us at some point, is the feeling of not being listened to by the one person who is ment to listen. I think Spam that you feel he didn't take your PND seriously and that by not doing things you've asked he continues not to listen. You feel invisible / unimportant.

And I'll bet he feels the same, dating back to trouble with his business.

I agree that you both need to love each other more.

I would stay stop talking and start acting. The way to being appreciated or getting someone else to do it is by not doing things but as you have done this unsuccessfully. I would say that you are flogging a dead horse. If my dp made me that unhappy I would leave, this is not the lifestyle you want and it's not making you happy. He has a choice then to pull his finger out or sod off.

that's 'say' not 'stay' ..perhaps that a freudian slip

jeez, what a tangle of comments. May as well throw mine into the mix, but you won't like it.

MSTG - TBH it sounds as if you have started to come through the PND but found that life isn't so great and you are taking it out on your DH instead of actually resolving it.

Of course your DH isn't pulling his weight but that is because you are letting him. Go take a look at those baby books and what they say about controlled crying. People don't change their behaviour if they are continually rewarded for that behaviour. So the child that gets cuddled in the night when it wakes up and cries has no incentive to stop. Ditto DH. Why should he stop picking up the dirty pants when you go round behind him picking them up instead. "I have asked him to leave but he won't" - ummm, so what happened then? Nothing. You got upset btu haven't changed your behaviour, so why should he change his?

Also, look at it from his point of view... he has probably got used to you being down and emotional because of your PND. In his head all the things you moan about might translate to him as 'more of the same', so there is no shock factor in anything you say, he will probably expect your normal setting to be miserable, so he might think 'if I do as she asks, she will still be down, so why bother?'. Not fair of him of course, but could well be his thought process.

Are your whinges being deflected by him coming up with the 'nothing I do is ever good enough so why bother?' argument? He could have a point.... ask yourself if you are too demanding and could perhaps chill out/lower your standards a bit..

Check your Ebay etc work - is it REALLY of value, or just your escape into something more interesting? would your time now be better spent in sorting out domestic stuff, so that there is less to argue about? Maybe ban yourself form Ebay for a month and start to organise your days to give you more flexibility to tackle the jobs round the house instead of asking him to do them.

Sorry of all that sounds like I am throwing the whole problem at you; I DO think it must be horrible for you and I do sympathise, but at the end of the day you are sitting there thinking he is the one with the problem but that's not the case; He has a good old life thank you very much; it is you who have the problem because you are unhappy, so this is YOUR problem, not his.

If I were him TBH I might be tempted to act the same way he is acting; come in exhausted from work, get moaned at, know your wife thinks your work is full of "'blue-sky' shit", be unable to extract any enthusiasm from wife when discussing job, just get a load of lectures from her about chores (when she has been home all day "playing" on the computer), maybe keep gettign reminded again and again that it was 'my' fault the business collapsed, because "she was right all along" and I "didn't listen".... this is speculation but maybe if that kind of thing is happening, he will feel you are intent on ripping his balls off and belittling everything he does. I might well think WTF and not bother, if I were in this situation.

How to address?

What do you want to actually happen? Write it down. Is it 3 hours of time from him every weekend to do 'chores'? Or 4 hours, Or what? Write it down exactly. Then tell him that is what you want and that if he agrees to that you will chill out and stop nagging him. If he disagrees make him argue his case why. If he can't and still refuses then you need to take ACTION. Strike, or just up and leave on a Saturday morning and come back on the Sunday night, or something. Reward charts and punishments. They work.

And as part of this you need to work out what is in it for him in all of this? WILL you stop nagging? Will you start trying to be more attentive to him?

It may be that you don't really fit together any more but I think you should put thoughts like that aside for the moment; If you assume that it is just part of rebuilding process you have to go through after all the upheavals and the baby etc then chances are you will treat it as a challenge and something you can be proactive about. Try to look at both sides, try to approach as if it were a particularyl difficult problem to resolve and try to focus on solutions and not resentment. If you do all that and things don't improve then relate and stuff should be considered.

sorry it took me so long to reply.

The reason I would think you were being unreasonable is because if you stay at home full time then I would be under the impression that to take care of the house and children etc. is therefore your job. If you both work outside home then housework has to be shared. I hear many sahms arguing the fact that staying at home should be treated with the same respect as any other career so how could you honestly expect your husband to do both his job and yours? (and he does work very long hours - over 12 hours out of house!! )

Of course he should be more involved with children.. that is definately something that needs to be worked on.

So sorry to hear you have been suffering with PND - really hope everything works out for you.

BarbielovesKen - why shouldn't he do some things around the home at the weekend? Why should he get 2 days off from work and SAHM like MSTG doesn't get any time off? That isn't fair. That isn't to say he should do the hoovering or a pile of ironing but he should clean up after himself (those pants really do need to go in the laundry basket) and help out with the children or the cooking. He isn't doing any of that. He might get away with it if he had some respect and consideration for his wife but he doesn't. She doesn't even get his emotional support.

Squiffy has wise words but it seems to me you and he have had huge loads of difficult things to cope with on all fronts. That you've at last sorted things out and that it's just going to be a difficult period for you both for a while and then it will get better as children get older and may be money gets easier.

How do you make a man be more attentive or sympathetic or do more housework? I think you mean the housework side. No easy answers and I'm not an expert as I'm divorced and my ex husband for all his other faults was always very involved at home.

I suppose you need to look at the number of hours you both "work" and count everything domestic and childcare as work. Write it down. Check if it's true you do more than he does. Don't ask for help but do a better division of the chores. For example every day before work my ex put on the washer and dishwasher. I didn't then think about washing or pots and pans because that was his job. I did the children's school stuff for the next day. He did the bins. I did the girls' hair combing.

As for whether stay at home mothers should do all the house things I don't know. Couples have to work that out themselves. I thik if you have very small children you often can't get housework done in the day and you need help from their father whereas if you've children out of the house at school or nursery for a few hours a day then it's slightly different.

I get the impression that the OP would happily do all the things she does and more, if she were to get some emotional feedback from her dp.