EU Citizens

[Devlesko]

Why aren't they being allowed in?
If it's covid related why let them fly in the first place. Why sell them tickets.
Some people were attending interviews and had return tickets.

They all seem to have thought they could fly into Britain, look for jobs and then come back later with a Visa once they'd got one.

as the govt confirmed, they are allowed to enter on a tourist visa (as in: from most of the EU you don't need one) to have an interview / set up an interview, then fly home to apply for a work visa.

Frankly? I hope EU countries start treating Brits like this too.

@blueangel19

Gosh so much ignorance.

Don’t be wickish.

Very few of us have traveled since Brexit, or had European visitors, because of that little COVID situation. So we’re not likely to be au fait with the exact details of the new rules yet, are we? Some of us have been shielding.

Which is basically how these young Spanish women have also made mistakes at the border.

I was just thinking yesterday that I’ve had my current car 18months and it still doesn’t have a GB sticker on it.

It would be lovely to get the hang of post-Brexit, post-Covid travel.

If they’d said “holiday” or practically anything that wasn’t work related m, they’d have been waved through.
Most likely, yes. But you see, this is exactly what will create a problem in the nearest future. Many industries that relied on transient or semi-transient workforce from the EU, will now move further into shadow economy. Farming, construction, cleaning, care work - areas that are already quite used to employing illegal labour from other countries. People will just come like that for a "holiday" and won't even have an option to pay taxes / NI here.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

It’s never been the airline or ferry company’s job to check that your visa is in order.

It is, actually. The airline is also charged for the cost of the return flight when someone is not given allowed to enter.

No, not at the point of sale. Sometimes you book tickets way before you apply for visas. Think about big round the world trips. Open tickets and so on.

Point of boarding is different, but that isn’t what I was responding to.

@MadMadMadamMim

But having read the Guardian article, the women interviewed were basically here on spec. They didn't have a proper interview lined up. Eugenia says She planned to look for a job offer, go home to apply for a visa and then return to live with her Spanish boyfriend

Maria said she thought she was free to explore the job market at least until October

They all seem to have thought they could fly into Britain, look for jobs and then come back later with a Visa once they'd got one. That's optimistic to say the least in light of Brexit and a world wide pandemic. I have no real sympathy for anyone flying into a foreign country hoping to find a job at the moment. Who does that?

But you’re allowed to go for 6 months vida free and in that time you’re allowed to attend interviews, meetings etc.

Another girl from Italy was going to stay with her cousin (nhs doctor so fairly busy atm) and help out with his childcare for free and she was detained for being an “au pair.” The family even checked with their local MP beforehand who said it was fine.

People will just come like that for a "holiday" and won't even have an option to pay taxes / NI here.

That’s been going on forever. If any government in the last 30 years had wanted to stop it, they’d have introduced ID cards. They still could now but that’s a separate issue.

Another girl from Italy was going to stay with her cousin (nhs doctor so fairly busy atm) and help out with his childcare for free and she was detained for being an “au pair.”
Well - technically yes, she would be, as presumably she will get free board from the family.

@forinborin

Another girl from Italy was going to stay with her cousin (nhs doctor so fairly busy atm) and help out with his childcare for free and she was detained for being an “au pair.” Well - technically yes, she would be, as presumably she will get free board from the family.

No she wouldn't. She is a family member. She should have just said visiting family...

This reminds me, have they finally decided on visa or something for aupairs?

@RickiTarr

People will just come like that for a "holiday" and won't even have an option to pay taxes / NI here.

That’s been going on forever. If any government in the last 30 years had wanted to stop it, they’d have introduced ID cards. They still could now but that’s a separate issue.

Yes, but I think it has significantly regularised recently. I remember renting a room in an HMO in London during the times when A8 countries joined the freedom of movement - all my housemates were illegal, but then became legal overnight. I remember them being quite annoyed as their employers were quite scared of the changes and wanted them to get NI numbers / register as self employed.

I hope EU countries start treating Brits like this too.

Did you miss the stories about long term British residents being refused re- entry to Spain?

@SchrodingersImmigrant

This is a situation that non eu immigrants are somewhat familiar with already. Granny wants to come for school holidays (say 3-4 weeks), it is wise to provide evidence that parents have official childcare / annual leave arranged to cover this time too.

Yes, but I think it has significantly regularised recently. I remember renting a room in an HMO in London during the times when A8 countries joined the freedom of movement - all my housemates were illegal, but then became legal overnight. I remember them being quite annoyed as their employers were quite scared of the changes and wanted them to get NI numbers / register as self employed.

The numbers of non-European undocumented workers dwarf anything that A8 or Brexit subtracted or added. The whole system has been crazy for a very long while. If we had rational politics someone would come up with an amnesty scheme and set it all straight. It’s telling that the right wing won’t even do the opposite and crack down. It’s a really inhumane situation.

@RickiTarr

Yes, but I think it has significantly regularised recently. I remember renting a room in an HMO in London during the times when A8 countries joined the freedom of movement - all my housemates were illegal, but then became legal overnight. I remember them being quite annoyed as their employers were quite scared of the changes and wanted them to get NI numbers / register as self employed.

The numbers of non-European undocumented workers dwarf anything that A8 or Brexit subtracted or added. The whole system has been crazy for a very long while. If we had rational politics someone would come up with an amnesty scheme and set it all straight. It’s telling that the right wing won’t even do the opposite and crack down. It’s a really inhumane situation.

I agree with you here to a large extent. I was just pointing out that now undocumented EU workers will start adding to the problem - and unlike other illegal immigrants, the entry route for them is through the front door, no need to hide in the back of the lorry and pay £000s for smuggling, so the risk / reward profile is more attractive.

[quote forinborin]@SchrodingersImmigrant

This is a situation that non eu immigrants are somewhat familiar with already. Granny wants to come for school holidays (say 3-4 weeks), it is wise to provide evidence that parents have official childcare / annual leave arranged to cover this time too.[/quote]
Ah. I had no idea. That's ridiculous

Ah. I had no idea. That's ridiculous
I remember reading immigration caseworker guidance several years ago and was amused how it was explained that some cultures have an extended family culture and DO tolerate MIL visits for more than few days, so don't refuse automatically as an obvious fantasy - look at the evidence first. Well, obviously I am exaggerating now, but only because I don't remember the exact wording, the spirit was pretty much the same.

I agree with you here to a large extent. I was just pointing out that now undocumented EU workers will start adding to the problem - and unlike other illegal immigrants, the entry route for them is through the front door, no need to hide in the back of the lorry and pay £000s for smuggling, so the risk / reward profile is more attractive.

Eurgh. That really doesn’t augur well. I must admit I hadn’t really considered it from that angle.

I agree with you here to a large extent. I was just pointing out that now undocumented EU workers will start adding to the problem - and unlike other illegal immigrants, the entry route for them is through the front door, no need to hide in the back of the lorry and pay £000s for smuggling, so the risk / reward profile is more attractive.

It was worth it before. Gbp was over double what it is now against currency in my native country. I don't think it's worthed now tbh. And well. Home office could just heavily advertise mumsnet. It does great job amking it sound like everyone bar like 10 people is absolutely destitute...

On a serious note, now with other options in EU including countries with better quality of life, I don't think UK will have big illegal migrant issue. There will be obviously some, but nothing massive. Basing this on what people say in various groups about thinking about emigrating from x.

It was worth it before. Gbp was over double what it is now against currency in my native country. I don't think it's worthed now tbh. And well. Home office could just heavily advertise mumsnet. It does great job amking it sound like everyone bar like 10 people is absolutely destitute...
Lol, very true about mumsnet - a must read for someone who plans on immigration. And yes, at the moment eurozone probably does offer slightly better prospects. But realistically, 3-4 years working non stop in the UK on a construction site as a general labourer (and yes, living in a bedsit with a dozen other guys and eating cheapest discounted food) still buys (or rather builds) a mansion back home. Well, OK, not a mansion, but a very decent property with no mortgage, when you are still in your early-mid 20s. Or provides a decent starting capital for business, or education.

A) they tried to enter Spain without the correct documentation (residence card) when non EU citizens aren’t allowed in.
B) they were given the next flight back to the UK not carted off to a detention centre.

But realistically, 3-4 years working non stop in the UK on a construction site as a general labourer (and yes, living in a bedsit with a dozen other guys and eating cheapest discounted food) still buys (or rather builds) a mansion back home.

I guess where the "back home is". Certainly wouldn't in my "back home"👀
What you are describing is also Germany from what I heard (i think their wages for unskilled labour are actually bit higher than here) and other countries.
With visas, insecurity and by now well advertised "hostile environment", many will just not come.
Some still will, obviously, but it looks like lots of people are now exploring other, easier, options.

Sounds like the rules aren’t clear.

The fact that it’s mostly young women being detained and treated aggressively is worrying.

I wonder if more EU citizens will leave after these stories...I am an EU citizen and had generally stopped thinking about Brexit in day to day life until I read these stories. It certainly does feel like a hostile environment.

@Camomila

I wonder if more EU citizens will leave after these stories...I am an EU citizen and had generally stopped thinking about Brexit in day to day life until I read these stories. It certainly does feel like a hostile environment.

Same.

And yes. From what I heard more people are planning to leave.

There was an article few days ago about shortages in hospitality. I know of people from other fields looking into moving elsewhere as well.

@QuentininQuarantino

A) they tried to enter Spain without the correct documentation (residence card) when non EU citizens aren’t allowed in. B) they were given the next flight back to the UK not carted off to a detention centre.

The article says:

‘Some were sent two hours’ drive away to Yarl’s Wood detention centre in Bedfordshire’

‘Other countries whose citizens have been held at a UK airport or detention centre include Italy, France, Bulgaria and Greece.’

‘the Bulgarian ambassador to the UK confirmed a number of his nationals had been held at immigration removal centres’

‘María said that when Border Force officials at Gatwick said they would expel her, she offered to pay for a flight home the same day. Instead, she was sent to Yarl’s Wood, where she spent three anxious days. “I’m still in shock,” she said.’

Yes @mainsfed

That’s how britain treated the young women arriving. The Brits going to Spain we’re just returned promptly to Britain.