Could you do everything on the job spec list for your job when you applied for it?

[AbsentmindedWoman]

Am curious. Studies show that men will apply for positions even if they don't meet all the criteria on the job spec.

I'm looking at current vacancies at the min and with loads of jobs, I meet almost all criteria but there will be a one point or a few points I don't meet. Sometimes it is obvious that I cannot perform that job - but other times, it feels more like a grey area, because in one way you could see that the good old 'transferable skills' would work.

But then it's such a tough market and employers have their pick, so surely they'll just pick someone who ticks every box?

How do you approach this?

For the first job at my place of work, yes. For my promotion, no.

Definitely apply anyway. And find tenuous connections to the experience you need.

The way I look at it is if you don't apply you definitely won't get it!

Read the job and person spec, be honest do you think you can do the job or quickly learn to do it? If yes apply even if you don't hit all of the criteria

What have you got to lose?

I'd say a rule of thumb is that if you match 75% then you can wing the rest. It's worked for me.

Incidentally, men are also much better at negotiating to start on a higher pay point. I was appointed to a role that I had been doing as a secondment and they tried to appoint me at the bottom of the payscale. I spoke to a male colleague who had recently been appointed and negotiated to go to the top. He encouraged me to try it. It bloody well worked!! I'd never have even tried if he hadn't been standing next to me when they offered me the post!!

Apply anyway - if you think you can do 60% you’ll be able to do 75, rest you can pick up.

Think about what they ultimately want out of this role, and sell how you’ll do that brilliantly. It’s that core thing they’ll focus on. And you can never know what other bits of experience you might have that they’ll think are valuable.

As the saying goes, your chances of winning the lotto are greatly increased by buying a ticket.

Go for it! I spent a huge amount of early my career 'job-hopping' and gambling with opportunities, and it's been well worth it. I always reckoned that if I could do approx 65% of the spec, I could learn the rest as I went along.

I work on the principle that it’s unlikely that anyone will meet 100% of the criteria (unless the spec has been written with a specific candidate in mind). I certainly haven’t met all the criteria for roles, but I have - where possible - borne in mind how my skills would translate to those elements for the interview.

If I’ve got most of the criteria I’ll wing the rest!

'My early career', that should say...

I did, but consultant jobs are a bit weird in that respect - the job spec is the bare minimum to get appointed, and you are expected to have a load of extra stuff on your CV as well. The exact makeup will vary from person to person, but the job spec is “bog standard safe practitioner”, and the other bells and whistles are what you personally would be able to bring to a department that none of the other candidates can offer.

DH and DBro have definitely applied for and been offered jobs for which “must have experience of X” has really meant “definitely aware of the concept of X”.

Every job before the one I have now, yes. This one - I decided to take a chance on and they obviously decided to take a chance on me despite me being open in the interview about my shortcomings. However I have significant skills in the other areas that they didn't have in house so I can bring a lot to the table.

I'm 2 months in and just about getting to grips with it.

Incidentally, men are also much better at negotiating to start on a higher pay point.

I negotiate after hearing this. And it does work. I also tell young women to do it.

Blag it. I've done that with every interview I've ever had.

My dh applied for a job a few months ago...one of the essentials was at least 2 years experience in the industry, he didn't have ANY experience in the industry...he actually got the job! 🤷‍♀️ his skills are v transferable and he is a very confident person. Go for it OP...there's no harm!

No. Even when I'm putting out a job advert - what I write is a wish list. Usually the the attributes I really want are at the top, and then I get a bit wishful. Hardly any the candidates have even half of what I've asked for. Men definitely just apply. I had someone apply with just a phone number and one who said 'it looks fun - I'll give it a go' - this was for a highly specialised, technical role. If you like the sound of a job then just apply for it. I was contacted by a recruiter who passed on a job spec to me and I didn't think I matched well. I wrote the email saying what a bad fit I was and then thought f*ck it - I'm going to be a man about it ( I read the same as you!). I applied. I start next week!

No - I had the essentials, just, and around half the desirables. In the interview I was asked what experience I had with a particular type of software. I honestly answered none, but talked about something equivalent I had done, so it wasn't empty space.

A year in and the imposter syndrome hasn't gone away, but bloody glad I applied!

MrsTerryPratchett

*Incidentally, men are also much better at negotiating to start on a higher pay point.

I negotiate after hearing this. And it does work. I also tell young women to do it*.

^ but HOW do you do it? WHAT do you say?

I just have a crack - it’s paid off most times.

I think I’d rather have someone who can grow into a role rather than someone who can do it all immediately.

If I'd read the job spec of what I ended up doing, I might have not thought myself ready for it. Actually it's all easy and I think often in job descriptions things can sound more complex than the reality.

@caringcaroline it's easier to negotiate pay if you are coming from another job tbh. When my dh was offered his latest job it was offered at 5k less than what he wanted. He managed to get it up by 3k. He said something along the lines of...oh I was hopin for x amount as I'm currently on y and I'm keen to join your organisation. If you could increase it that would be fantastic. They did! 🙈

I think it very much depends on the industry
I’m in the voluntary sector and salaries are fixed - we are however great on flexible working
I would say apply if you meet 75% or more if the essential criteria and 50% or more of the desirable also give explanations re transferable skills for areas you are lacking
I regularly recruit and whether you would get an interview depends on volume and quality of candidates
We score quite strictly on anonymised applications and only interview the top 4-6 for each role

Incidentally, men are also much better at negotiating to start on a higher pay point

This is so true. I’m HR and often will insist we offer a female candidate more than she has asked for if I think she’s undervalued herself. I never need to do this for male candidates.

Apply. Say you're particularly interested in the post because it will allow you to develop in X area which you haven't had the opportunity to do in the past. Explain how you think your current experience will support that development.

@TheMotherlode

Incidentally, men are also much better at negotiating to start on a higher pay point

This is so true. I’m HR and often will insist we offer a female candidate more than she has asked for if I think she’s undervalued herself. I never need to do this for male candidates.

Well I just said that I was very interested and pleased that they thought I was a suitable candidate and I thought I was worth xxx. I then explained why and also that male colleagues were paid more than they were offering and that their gender pay gap details showed that they had a 20% pay gap between men and women and this was their opportunity to start to close it. I am not going to lie, it felt very uncomfortable and they kept ringing to negotiate and I just stuck to my guns. They wanted me so they eventually paid it.

@Meme69 - that’s a great outcome, congrats!

This is really interesting - I am job hunting at the moment - I just didn’t apply for a job because I didn’t meet one or two essential criteria, but things I could definitely pick up easily. Will be bolder next time!

This is such an inspiring thread, I too have read the research about men applying for jobs more often than women when they don’t meet all the criteria and it prompted me to give the application for my last job a bash, probably met about 60% of the criteria, could bullshit another 20% and the rest I’d have to pick up as I went along. Got the job. 2.5 years later that job had given me the skills I needed to get my dream job which by that point I met about 75% of the criteria for and I could bullshit the other 25%. I’ve more than doubled my salary in the last 3 years. Still need to pinch myself tbh. And it was because I took a punt on a job that I knew I’d be ace at, I just needed to convince the employer of that!