to think most people will work till they're dead and won't see retirement age?

[tugging]

Ok massive generalisation but I see a lot of people talking about how they're 40 or so and have 20 + years before they retire.

As a society, we're more sicker, more stressed and more busier than ever. These things would shorten your life expectancy. I can't imagine working till I'm nearly 70- I'm not even 40 and I'm already knackered! I think I'll be dead before I reach retirement age. I know so many people who have died before 60. They never got to retire and enjoy a work free life.

I know people can retire earlier but not many people have a decent pension that i know of and are forced to work till they're nearly 70 or till ill health.

[quote rookiemere]@Dashel but some people live off rice and beans and drive an old car because they can't afford a new one. Early retirement is still only an option for those that can afford to fund it.

FWIW from our position of affluence we go down a middle path - holidays and days out now because who knows our life expectancy and we want DS to have an enjoyable childhood, but 3 star self catering and sandwiches sometimes so we can plough into pensions.

[/quote]
Yes, and I think that it's more possible to live cheaply than some think. My husband and I holiday a lot, and I think people think us very rich - and we are, comparatively.

But when you talk details, you realise that the friends holidaying once every couple of years are spending £3000 a go (it came up because they weren't happy with the holiday, and didn't include spending money!) - that would cover the NINE holidays (all abroad) we took in one year.

And if you retire, or semi retire, it would be even easier to live more cheaply, as you can travel whenever, using slower and more environmentally friendly forms of travel too.

@SofiaMichelle I’ve just used legal and generals quick calculator and that gives an annuity of £10,650 per year from £320k. I don’t want to split hairs but that’s quite different to £22k.

@finallymightbehappening

You know a lot of people die soon after retirement because that's when they slow down and get old. So important to keep mind and body going.

I think it very much will depend on what sort of person they are pre-retirement. Some people I know are half-dead at mid thirties, others have huge amounts of vim.

My mum hasn't earned money for her work in decades, but she still plows away between 6am to 6pm every day.

[quote Yawnthisway]@SofiaMichelle I’ve just used legal and generals quick calculator and that gives an annuity of £10,650 per year from £320k. I don’t want to split hairs but that’s quite different to £22k.[/quote]
Annuities are a waste of time for most people now.

What I am quoting is a rough drawdown calculation, with the balance of the crystallised fund continuing to grow (as it would).

I'm freelance, so the lines between working and not are already quite blurred for me.
I can't imagine retiring. Obviously I don't get a pension from work (I do have a laughable one from a few years spent in salaried jobs).
DP is freelance too and a low earner.
I won't be inheriting anything.
I always say I love my work and feel lucky to be able to do it. Good job really as I'll be going to my grave doing it

[quote Yawnthisway]@SofiaMichelle I’ve just used legal and generals quick calculator and that gives an annuity of £10,650 per year from £320k. I don’t want to split hairs but that’s quite different to £22k.[/quote]
That's an annuity offering you 3.3% and annuity rates are ridiculously low because no one uses them any more. An annuity is an arrangement whereby you give them your money and they agree to pay you a certain amount every month or year until you die. Good value if you live to be 100, not so great if you pop your clogs at 74.

You could alternatively take that £320k and invest it in such a way (enlisting the help of a good financial advisor) that you were likely to receive more like £20,000 pa. And if you died young, your family/ friends/ favourite good cause would inherit. Most annuities die when you die.

I was recommended this tool for calculating my pension return:

www.which.co.uk/money/pensions-and-retirement/options-for-cashing-in-your-pensions/income-drawdown/income-drawdown-calculator-making-your-money-last-awvp49g8uq6l

You can adjust it for different degrees of risk and see what you might get for £320,000.

I worked and paid into a pension from a young age. It was a financial struggle (interest rates on mortgages shot up to 15/16%). For me and my flatmate, our weekly 'night out' was our trip to the laundrette, we'd splash out of a magazine each and a chocolate bar! More than half the furniture was second hand. Going out to a club, or getting drunk or having a meal our was a rare event. I think we just had different expectations.

I worked throughout my dc's life, then anticipating the future I left employment (which was exhausting and required huge amounts of travel) to work for myself (and I set up a private pension). Over the years I have managed to carve out a self-employed career that I love and which now (60) I can do on a part-time basis. Can't imagine ever stopping completely, it provides some income plus keeps me involved in the community and active.

But it all required thinking about. The worst is to bury your head in the sand and not anticipate the consequences. Some friends preferred not to work when their dc were small (and were fortunate that family finances covered that) but a couple of the found it really hard to get back into work later on, and their pensions have taken a bit hit as a consequence.

I take your point @Wriggleout but I've been contributing to a pension since I started working at 21 apart from2 years of mat leave and I've still got bigger all to show for it.
Unless I've got a high salary or an old fashioned public sector one they really don't account for much at all

@harknesswitch

I think there needs to be a massive change i. the way we think about pensions. It shouldn't be a case if 'if I can afford to put money into a pension I will' it should be the first thing we think about.

If your parent paid in the max for a child from age 0 to 18, by the time that child gets to 60, the pension pot will be over a £1000000. That's after paying in around £45k over 18 years. More than enough for a healthy retirement.

I'm not saying parents should pay into a pension for their dc, but if you pay in a small amount early enough you can then stop paying and leave the pension to do it's stuff over time

You're not taking inflation Inro account. £1 million will be nothing in 50 or 60 years time and the assets you will be investing in are double the levels of historic averages which will probably revert back to the mean over the long term.

Yes, but presumably the child will then go on to contribute for the years 18-55-ish.

Unfortunately that's all pretty theoretical because as far as I know children can't have pension funds. But you could certainly put money into some kind of savings — probably based on stocks and shares, as that's what a pension fund would be investing in.

@Shedbuilder

Yes, but presumably the child will then go on to contribute for the years 18-55-ish.

Unfortunately that's all pretty theoretical because as far as I know children can't have pension funds. But you could certainly put money into some kind of savings — probably based on stocks and shares, as that's what a pension fund would be investing in.

Yes you can e.g. www.unbiased.co.uk/life/pensions-retirement/junior-pensions

@Shedbuilder thank you for the Which link.

I had been wondering about the value of annuities. Assuming I go onto 67 (which I expect to) my drawdown would see my fund expire after 17 years which takes me to 84 but gives me an income of £7500 per year from a £100,000 pension pot.

Doesnt sound a lot but this would be on top of 16 years in a final salary scheme and full state pension. We wont be splashing out on that money but should see us able to afford a pleasant standard of living.

I'm just hoping attitudes are shifting and older people will be given opportunities to work p/t in their sixties.
I've got plans to semi-retire and work a couple of days until 67. As an SEN teacher, that should be quite possible. Tbh, it'll probably keep me healthier than if I retired early. For my parents and their friends (in their late 70s), every night is wine o'clock! 😆 I can't keep up with them... 🥂🍷

@bp300

You're not taking inflation Inro account. £1 million will be nothing in 50 or 60 years time and the assets you will be investing in are double the levels of historic averages which will probably revert back to the mean over the long term.

With 2% inflation eroding the £1m it's still worth £350k after 50 years.

You're welcome, Gnome. The beauty of drawdown is that you can take a bit less one year and then a bit more the next according to your needs.

@GinJeanie

I'm just hoping attitudes are shifting and older people will be given opportunities to work p/t in their sixties. I've got plans to semi-retire and work a couple of days until 67. As an SEN teacher, that should be quite possible. Tbh, it'll probably keep me healthier than if I retired early. For my parents and their friends (in their late 70s), every night is wine o'clock! 😆 I can't keep up with them... 🥂🍷

I'm a teacher, not in the UK, and work part-time in my mid-60s. I see on the Teacher's Pension website you have to declare work if claiming the teacher's pension. I don't know the details, and it would be sensible to enable people to draw on their pension and still work.

I wonder if the UK government will eventually do what the Australian government does; means test the state pension.

The problem with that is that for decades they've been pretending that NI contributions fund universal pensions. So unless they wish to refund the NI contributions of all of those who would have their state pensions removed, it wouldn't be politically viable. Not yet anyway. Australia has had compulsory private pension contributions for much longer than the UK, and at much higher percentages. Maybe when those now in their 20s in the UK now reach retirement enough people will have sufficient savings that means-testing state pension becomes viable. But you can't just rip the bottom out of people's pension planning when they're already middle aged and have been told their contributions will result in a pension for them when they become old.

@HalcyonSea

The problem with that is that for decades they've been pretending that NI contributions fund universal pensions. So unless they wish to refund the NI contributions of all of those who would have their state pensions removed, it wouldn't be politically viable. Not yet anyway. Australia has had compulsory private pension contributions for much longer than the UK, and at much higher percentages. Maybe when those now in their 20s in the UK now reach retirement enough people will have sufficient savings that means-testing state pension becomes viable. But you can't just rip the bottom out of people's pension planning when they're already middle aged and have been told their contributions will result in a pension for them when they become old.

I wondered "if" government would do this eventually. Emphasis on the "if " as they had no problem about fucking over 1953 -55? women at very short notice.

[quote SofiaMichelle]@bp300

You're not taking inflation Inro account. £1 million will be nothing in 50 or 60 years time and the assets you will be investing in are double the levels of historic averages which will probably revert back to the mean over the long term.

With 2% inflation eroding the £1m it's still worth £350k after 50 years.[/quote]
Inflation will be well over 2% and the official rates of inflation are not to be trusted.

@echt yes, I know. I was just speculating on the question that you asked. And yes they did treat that cohort of women awfully by raising their pension age so far and so fast. That said, that's nowhere bear as awful as it would be to announce to people that - having been told that if you make 30 years of NI contributions and you'll get a full state pension - some if them will actually get no state pension at all. That would basically be theft.

Why are you knackered at not even 40? It might be an idea to see the GP for blood tests - anaemia, folic acid deficiency, any number of reasons why you could be so tired. You're relatively young, it isn't normal or healthy to be so done in at your age.

In my team of 10, four have taken "flexi retirement" which you can do from age 55 with access to your workplace pension - obviously at a reduced level - and work PT.

Not sure what it does for succession planning when they do retire fully though.

Two don't want to and are quite happy to work PT until they drop.

My plan is to go gradually part time as I get older. So I'm currently a ft teacher, 42, been teaching for 17 years. I can see me doing another 15-20 years ft, as long as I stay healthy. My mortgage will be paid off in 10 years, and dd2 will be finishing uni then as well so I won't have any official financial dependents by then. So when I need to, I'll drop a day at work. Then a few years later I'll drop another day, and so on. Eventually I'll be in a position where I can retire fully, or retire from school teaching and do tutoring/exam marking/supply on an as and when basis. If I can make it to 55 still working ft then my plan will work, assuming school will let me drop to part time.

I'm healthier than my mum or dad were at my age. Dad had to retire through ill health in his 40s, mum carried on teaching til she was 62 but had/has a whole load of health problems that were exacerbated by the physical nature of teaching young children at that age.

Yanbu. I'm from a middle class, comfortable family and yet only one person in my family has ever reached retirement age. Thousands paid in over decades that no one saw the benefit of. I can't see the point tbh.

I really have no idea where they get average life expectancy from as it's just not what I see around me.

@Willyoujustbequiet

Yanbu. I'm from a middle class, comfortable family and yet only one person in my family has ever reached retirement age. Thousands paid in over decades that no one saw the benefit of. I can't see the point tbh.

I really have no idea where they get average life expectancy from as it's just not what I see around me.

I'm so sorry to hear this. But if they've not even reached retirement age then everything saved into their private pensions is still there - they wouldn't yet have even had the chance to buy an annuity - so it should all have been inherited by other family members?