Begging outside shops etc, should be stopped?

[Bookingsmamas]

Shouldn’t these places have their security move these people on? It’s absolutely getting ridiculous now. I’ve seen a steady increase of these men begging for cash, they’re homeless, etc etc.

I have 0 issue with someone sitting outside somewhere asking for money. But they aren’t doing that, they’re going up to cars, people walking by. And now tapping on my bloody car. Twice since going to our local Aldi, someone has tapped?! On my car when I’ve tried to ignore them politely.

It just feels very intrusive. AIBU to think security should be stopping them or encouraging them to move along? Our local shopping centre is excellent and moving these people straight on

@mainsfed

Even worse, he was seen in another town buying a brand new Mercedes and paying IN CASH!

Do Mercedes accept payment for a £20k+ car in cash? Wouldn't that raise financial crime concerns?

in cash means not on finance. I'm sure OP knows that he wasn't sat there counting out his change to buy a car.

I'm a Labour voter if it helps.

And I'm a Tory vote if that helps.

I do understand the argument about making it worse by giving money, but when it is at freezing point and you see a young man or woman on the street, and there isn't much sign of the charities helping them at that moment, it's extremely hard to ignore them.

@OwlBeThere if you're referring to my description of "these particular people," I'm talking about a well-run gang operation. I doubt the poor beggars who are taken to the intersection receive more than a fraction of what they're given. They may be paid in alcohol/drugs, some look as if they're suffering from addictions.

These cheap easy accessible drugs are a problem.

Jesus Christ, listen to yourself will you?You're everything that is wrong with society.The people you are talking about are human beings, just like you

Yes, they are human beings who shouldn't be harassing people for money. Fuck off with "everything thats wrong with society"!

A hairdresser from my local town at home does a weekly pop up, haircuts, shaves etc and provides toothbrushes and stuff like that. The launderette has chipped in with a free wash and dry for her clients and the local homeless action group provide food and benefits advice. Even that rare creature thebCPN has been known to stop by. The local dentist also sees urgent cases on that day. A great example of genuine community responsibility and spirit. But when last there, I did notice that there was little tolerance of the organized gangsnto the point they don't seem to bother with the
Town anymore.

I regularly come across a genuinely homeless guy, I always stop and have a chat, I never give him money, but I do buy him something for his dogs. He has caused his own homelessness due to being thrown out of accommodation due to his behaviour. He has a drink problem which I suspect is where it all started to go wrong for him. But he doesn’t help himself he now has 3 huge dogs sleeping on the streets with him and no one will house him with the dogs, I understand him not wanting to part with them, but when I first came across him he only had the one dog he’s slowly collected more (apparently been given them by friends but I doubt it).

I came very close to being violently assaulted (in broad daylight) by a homeless man. It wasn't for money, he was on drugs and just wanted to attack me.

As a result I've developed a fear of the majority of homeless men I see out and about (in fact, anyone who looks intimidating full stop.) Many people probably think this makes me a bad person, but if someone violently intimidates you it's hard to get past.

I think the point of this thread is about agression and intimidation not particularly begging

This is exactly what it's about the op was at the supermarket a man aggressively asked her for money but that's fine because you know he might have problems

I agree 100% I was pregnant when a local druggie (not labelling all homeless as druggies) would hang by the trollies where you return your trolley to collect your coin at the supermarket because he knew he could shame most people into giving it to him. If you offered him food he'd tell you to piss off, and his eyes were wide (used to work in a shelter knew exactly what those on drugs look like). Was very threatening, got to the point where there were two at one time. They never give up and it's very scary.

Never, EVER give money to beggars, unless you want their death from overdose to be on your conscience.
A lovely lad where we used to live begged regularly, got into heroin then crack and died.
He said the passerby giving him generous “ drops” fuelled his addiction and made it easy to use.
Many beggars aren’t actually rough sleepers, but beg for drug and drink money.
Give food if you must, but not money that will fuel a serious drug habit.

I can't get on with this sort of fake virtue signalling. Most of the folk criticising the op for feeling intimidated won't or haven't done a dam thing to support drug users or homeless people.

I think they should where my dad lives (small town) there is a local small sainsburys shop they are always out side there I told him to stay away from them if they ask him for anything he is disabled and speech is bad one day he went to the shop took 60 out of the cash machine on his own and they were on him the cheeky little f*ers managed to get £40 of him , ive seen people take sandwiches out to them and they refuse them asking for money instead they are known as the towns
Smack heads they sit and beg to buy drugs they are in shelter accommodation loads of people are reporting it to our local council so hopefully something will be done and they will get moved on

Fuck off with "everything thats wrong with society"!

When I read "leave it to the charities", and that all beggars are criminal masterminds driving in brand new Mercedes parked round the corner, I worry that we then also miss people in legitimate need.

There is no doubt that charities cannot solve this problem either, and sometimes other humans can legitimately help others in their time of need. That is what I read about 'what is wrong with society' - we seem to believe there is this big daddy saviour who is always elsewhere and never on us to do something and make our own discerning judgements about the person sat in front of us.

Personally, I would rather 'lose' money on a scammer than walk past someone in legitimate need.

I agree that it is the aggression that is the problem. If a beggar is sitting on the ground you can choose to give to them or ignore. If they are standing up or following you then that is unacceptable intimidation.

In the US, after a period of some years of reduced begging, it is now very much on the rise. It is scary being pulled at and jostled. And this is to people in the neighbourhood, not just wealthy-looking tourists. I hope it doesn’t get to this state here.

oh, perhaps because they don’t engage with scammers and drug addicts?

If homeless charities don’t engage with drug addicts, that is a real problem.

but you have to wonder why someone prefers sitting outside shops and making people either feel guilty or almost threatened into giving money, rather than the individual taking up offers of help (it isn't just immediate help - they link with other groups to get people long term help). Perhaps they do actually have a home or perhaps they make more money this way?

Or, perhaps they have been let down by these charities again and again and don’t want to have to go through that. Do some reading about it. Sometimes it can be as simple as having no provision for pets. Other times it can be the shelters they are shipped to are violent or are very strict. You have to ask, if sleeping on the street in sub zero temperatures is the preferred option, how poor do you think the alternative is?

Again, don't conflate homelessness with begging. The two do overlap of course, but not all homeless people beg and not all beggars are homeless.

I’m conflating nothing. The non homeless beggar needs help and support just as the homeless beggar does. If outreach support services aren’t providing that, it’s a problem.

Don't worry OP, your prayers will be answered with the new Police Bill, all those pesky homeless people will be illegal.
There's a novel idea from Pretti racist Patel, make being homeless illegal.
You couldn't make it up.
I hope you can sleep at night, but people so out of touch usually can.

There's a guy in my city who is really aggressive in his begging and will walk upto people repeatedly and demand money etc. He demanded I lend him my phone once and when I said no, he got really angry and walked off swearing and shouting at everyone to "go f*&k themselves". I think it's awful that people get this desperate, but intimidating people who are just trying to get on with their day doesn't inspire kindness and generosity. This is the kind of behaviour that needs to be dealt with. And for the record, I have helped vulnerable looking people where I can - buying them breakfast etc.

Most of the folk criticising the op for feeling intimidated won't or haven't done a dam thing to support drug users or homeless people.

“Spoken to rudely” “intrusive” “tapping”

I’m not sure the OP was at all intimidated by it, sounds more like annoyance. Nothing to suggest she was threatened.

Do you think beggars have the right to aggressively ask people for money, Devlesko? Where is the line between any man being aggressive towards a woman, and a man on the streets being aggressive? Are we allowed to be afraid of one but have to accept the other?

@oakleaffy
Give food if you must, but not money that will fuel a serious drug habit

Why if you must ?

I volunteer with the homeless

This thread almost made me cry. The homeless that I’ve volunteered with for almost 10 years are some of the kindest. Warm hearted people. We’re all one pay check away from being there ourselves and I hope. I hope that if I’m in that situation. That I won’t encounter people like you.

Someone above rightly said that you shouldn’t ever offer money. If you want to offer anything. Then a hot drink and some food. But ask first!! Why? Because some are massive,y involved with drugs yes. They won’t want food. They want money. The true homeless do actually want food

We did a survey recently. You want to know what was no 1 on most homeless people and what they most asked for?

A chat.....that was no 1 on the survey that was taken with the homeless charities.

We take most of the people we meet to a coffee shop. Sit with them. Most are grateful that someone has even looked their way. Some people don’t want to and that’s ok. Some people are coming down off drugs and often want to be alone.

I understand how you hate it. But it could happen to you....it can happen to anyone of us. I’ve seen pregnant women who are about to pop living on the streets and have no prenatal care because how can they get there. I’ve seen homeless people with stomas get infected because of no medical care. I work with charities who strive to make sure this doesn’t happen. But sadly it does.

I’m sickened to think that there are people who wish that they didn’t exist. The stories are usually horrific. Women getting away from sexual and violent abuse. Men getting away from sexual family abuse. Only to get vomited on. Urinated on. Defalcated on. Because people think who cares. They live on the streets they deserve it

Sometimes all they need is a friendly ear to help them have a good day. They don’t need money. They just want someone to treat them humanly. How horrid must that be or how desperate must that be...they get into drugs because a life on the streets is hard. Really hard.

Instead of being moved on every 5 mins.

Go out and survive for a week on the streets. Then imagine that week turning into months. Into years. All whilst trying to find food for your pregnant girlfriend. Or dying friend. Most don’t even try to get money for themselves. They are a tight knit community who do anything for each other. Because that’s all they have. I’ve seen men spend a whole day begging. Only to go give that money to someone else who needs it more.

It’s not always what you think it is

In some way, I understand the OP. We have a chap locally who grabs older peoples shopping, marches them off to their car, then holds his hand out for payment for doing so. For them, he is terribly aggressive and frightening. But he isn't street homeless, he's an alcohol/drug abuser.

No, people shouldn't be allowed to loiter in car parks, making other people uncomfortable. They do it deliberately, knowing you are vulnerable because you have your hands full/with children/are elderly.

It is illegal under the Begging and Vagrancy Act 1824

I have worked in peripherals of this area, organised gangs are more common than you think, yes sometimes it is for drugs. However, I've never met a legit homeless ex-service, because the military has their own charities to take care of their own. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it's rare.

The number of people begging across UK cities has gone through the roof recently, as of course has food bank use. Apparently this is a good thing though, at least that’s what the British government seem to believe nowadays, as it shows out country’s charitable nature.

Of course by “recently” I mean the last ten years or so.