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CMS are shit. How do I prove my children are at home 5 nights?
106

Mumof3almost4 · 10/05/2021 11:22

Ex has said he has shared care of kids, he claims he has them 3 nights. He does not he has them 1/2. This has drastically reduced maintenance.
I appealed and they said I have not proved that they are at home so many nights. How the fucking he'll do I prove they stay at home at least 5 nights? Send pics of them in their beds?!
I have to appeal at tribunal, please advise what you'd do??

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Beebeby · 11/05/2021 01:11

Could you ask the football coach to sign a letter confirming you take him. Any friendly neighbour who sees then leaving for school from your house . Your manager at work who knows you can’t work late for childcare. All together it is evidence even if not great individually. If they use public transport go with them to bus stop you might know someone who gets the same bus. You shouldn’t have too it’s shit but something might crop up that’s useful.

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Nats1984 · 11/05/2021 01:14

Firstly . Definitely go for a court arranged thing. My goodness it saved so much ongoing drama for my friend. In the mean time , communicate only by text or email about pick ups and drop offs, you should be able to do this without him twigging that you’re gathering evidence, you can use bullshit like your phone contract isn’t working so you only have house data so it’s all on WhatsApp. Screenshot a lot though. Accounts and conversations do vanish under certain circumstances. I had this from an ex, he paid 0 till she was 14, he played all sorts of games including malicious social services referrals . I put all the money into my daughters account towards her first car, once he’d been made to look an absolute prick by SS and CMS. And he’s still paying £60 per month ( back payment for the year he was lying and said she lived with him , she’d been to his house twice and couldn’t stand being molested by large dogs and watching his girlfriend have a drunken argument with her sister Grin)even though she’s 19 and in a really good job, because he’s a liar and a fool. Don’t let them get away with it. Claim what your child can, they’ll never give them what they deserve but my daughter high fived me when we got her money ( high earner got done for over 100 a week) and she was given every penny. She respects me for that. That’s bloody priceless.

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EmeraldShamrock · 11/05/2021 01:19

It is absolutely ridiculous you have to prove this. Flowers

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mumof3almost4 · 04/12/2021 12:47

Update if anyone is interested. I sent an appeal at the time, randomly got a letter today to say the CMS has revised their decision and now ex owes me almost £1000. God knows if I'll get it though.

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unicornsarereal72 · 04/12/2021 13:04

So pleased to hear it has been sorted. Are arrears coming directly from his employer?

Hopefully the right amount is being paid mow.

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feckingknackered · 04/12/2021 13:12

@unicornsarereal72 thank you 😊 no he's always paid weekly direct but a lower amount he decided I was allowed. He's only just been informed so if he doesn't I might have to go direct pay?

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unicornsarereal72 · 04/12/2021 13:14

They should catch up with him one way or another. Fingers crossed. I'm still waiting for enforcement orders to be made on mine. Only been three years 🙄

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AngelonTopoftheTree · 04/12/2021 13:21

@mumof3almost4

Update if anyone is interested. I sent an appeal at the time, randomly got a letter today to say the CMS has revised their decision and now ex owes me almost £1000. God knows if I'll get it though.

That's great news! Even if you don't get it, at least you've been vindicated.
What a shithead you ex isXmas Angry
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Hankunamatata · 04/12/2021 13:37

I actually would take time and date stamped photos of them in their beds. Keep a dairy. Have you text messages or emails from ex arranging pick up and drop off?

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Hankunamatata · 04/12/2021 13:40

Urgh seen kids arrange it. Do they have messages on their phones?

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Hankunamatata · 04/12/2021 13:41

Sorry just seen update. My app didnt highlight. Glad its sorted

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Kennykenkencat · 04/12/2021 13:46

Mumof3almost4

Football coach is a friend of his so can't approach him. Unfortunately I think I need the proof to come from the kids which is terrible

Video and photos with date stamps showing you dropping children off and picking them up.
Document everything with date stamped videos and photos

Aside from the video which your children were coerced into making I would ask that he too gets proof of them being at his place

That video he had them make is one of the lowest things I have heard of.

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Kennykenkencat · 04/12/2021 13:50

Even CCTV in your home for a few months to show them not at his might be an investment

I would definitely ask what is considered proof and children on video saying something could be considered not proof as they could have thought they were play acting. (Friend recorded her assault and was told that it didn’t count as proof as they could have been acting).

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Kennykenkencat · 04/12/2021 13:51

Just seen your update. Glad everything is sorted although I am shocked that they sorted everything in such a short period of time

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BlondeDogLady · 04/12/2021 13:51

My ExH managed to convince CMS that he earned £32k, when, in fact, he earned £134,000. I begged CMS to go directly to HMRC for his salary. They refused. They told me I'd have to prove what he earned. I asked them how. They had no answer. A few years later at a review, the ExH didn't supply his income and they did go directly to HMRC for his salary, and HMRC confirmed that his salary was over £140k ish. I asked them to then consider that he can't have earned £32k one year and £134k the next, so could they ask HMRC for his income over a range of years. They refused. So, I got maintenance for one year based on his actual salary, and all other years were based on his fabrications. The children are grown up now, but I'm still bitter about it.

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spongedog · 04/12/2021 13:55

Hi, Sorry you are going through this.

You need to look at the internal manuals which staff use for guidance. I had to do this for a disputed joint child benefit claim.

I hadnt realised that CMS manuals were not available where as tax credit manuals are. But luckily for you - others have been asking!!

Look at this link and find the link for Shared Care. It might not be the answer you want but gives detailed guidance.

voiceofthechild.org.uk/kb/child-maintenance-service-policy-law-and-decision-making-guidance/

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Santahatesbraisedcabbage · 04/12/2021 13:55

My exh had a second job. They told me I had to get photos to prove it.
He worked in a working man's social club ffs..
Imagine sneaking on with a phone and snapping away?!
I gave up.
Glad you have seen results op..
Second exh the dc wrote letters to benefits and signed them. Exh lost his claim.

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Chakraleaf · 04/12/2021 13:58

Have this issue ATM. Apparently of no proof the default is to assume they do have themAngry

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Duxiejhrhrvjz · 04/12/2021 13:58

I haven’t read the whole thread so apologies if it’s been resolved. I had this also with ex saying he has shared care. He had none. I told them this and they said the onus was on him to prove otherwise.
The acceptable proof was a solicitors letter or a court order.
Surely you can record a video of your children saying that they stay however many nights they do stay?
Then you’ll both be back to square one?

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ivykaty44 · 04/12/2021 14:02

get a ring doorbell

then use that as evidence

it'll prove when exude is on the doorstep collecting the dc and brining them back

it'll prove how many days per week you take them to school and return home with them

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BasicDad · 04/12/2021 14:08

Anyone else going through this. If your kids are old enough to have a phone, sign up to life360.

One of many things it does is keep a location history of where they have been.

I think it's a bit stalkery in a lot of situations. But with flakey parents or this scenario, it's well warranted.

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Alltheblue · 04/12/2021 14:17

It's hard to get them to care

That's really disappointing. Do they not understand "Mum is not sure how to put a roof over our heads if we lie?"

It sounds like you're raising small versions of him which I really hope is not the case.

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Sowhatifiam · 04/12/2021 14:19

I suggest you involve your MP, OP. MPs need to be made aware of the flaws in the system each and every time we have an issue with the CMS. The biggest issue is that we frequently just manage and get on with it without making a fuss. We really do need to make a fuss. It’s the only way things will change - when MOs see the impact the current system is having on the lives of real,people.

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Alltheblue · 04/12/2021 14:24

Oh I see that they are much nicer children than I'd feared. That's good.

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Santahatesbraisedcabbage · 04/12/2021 14:29

I emailed my MP regarding benefits that exh was still claiming when ds had moved ft to me. Sorted within a week.

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