Page 8 | Photo ID needed to vote? Please no.

flashbac · 2021-05-10T10:00:41+00:00

The government are bringing in (photo) voter ID meaning you'll need to show your passport or driving licence when going to cast your vote. By all means reform the postal voting system but not this. Not everyone drives or goes abroad and this will bar many people from voting. Driving licences and passports are not cheap. [[https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/10/queens-speech-photo-id-future-elections-social-care?]]

SchrodingersImmigrant · 11/05/2021 13:13

These and many others are the reasons I don't want the government (via some badly awarded and executed massive IT contract) to manage my identity thanks - I happier managing it myself.

They are though. Unless you live off the grid totally and was born that way, they are. The only difference in the end is taht you have a card with basic info in your hand.

DogInATent · 11/05/2021 13:13

Windrush wouldn't have been prevented by ID cards.

ID cards would have removed the need to provide documentary evidence of residence for every year of your life. I've gone through this with Settled Status.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 11/05/2021 13:15

@DogInATent

Windrush wouldn't have been prevented by ID cards.

ID cards would have removed the need to provide documentary evidence of residence for every year of your life. I've gone through this with Settled Status.

And the SS is actually wuite easy compared to some other ones. It's just residency, not proving economic activity like it was before. Luckily

DogInATent · 11/05/2021 13:16

@DynamoKev

For all those people who "don't understand the opposition/backlash" to a national ID card scheme. I'd like to remind you of the recent Post Office Horizon revelations, and of mistakes made by the DVLA, and the Windrush scandal. These and many others are the reasons I don't want the government (via some badly awarded and executed massive IT contract) to manage my identity thanks - I happier managing it myself. Most of the reasons touted for "needing" ID cards aren't correct, and for them to be really effective for most other issues, they'd have to be demanded at a level that would become intrusive.

They are cited as a cure-all to problems that either don't exist, or that they wouldn't address, or for issues that could and should be dealt with by better enforcement of existing laws.

Can I make a guess that you're native British and have never had your right to live in the UK challenged?

00100001 · 11/05/2021 13:17

but it removes your right to an anonymous vote, surely?

SchrodingersImmigrant · 11/05/2021 13:18

@00100001

but it removes your right to an anonymous vote, surely?

How?

00100001 · 11/05/2021 13:20

@SunflowersAndLavender

The deterring people from voting 'last minute' argument is a bit like saying that driving licences and passports are unfair because they deter disorganised people from driving legally and going abroad on holiday.

Bring in free photo ID cards in order to access state benefits and free at the point of service access to the NHS. Then let's see just how many people are too disorganised to get around to applying for them.

When it comes down to it, if someone wants or needs something badly enough they will do what is required in order to get it. If they don't bother to get the card it's because they don't consider that there is enough direct benefit to them to make it worth their effort.

it's not the point. You shouldn't be denied your RIGHT to vote, because you didn't receive your ID card, or left it at home by accident, and you wanted to vote on the way home and by going back home you'll run out of time. Or say you're organised, you have your voting ID card, you keep it in your purse.. and on the way to the polls your purse gets stolen - now you can't vote.

00100001 · 11/05/2021 13:22

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Because, what records are they keeping to say an ID card was produced? If they record something (such as ID card number) against a list of names (or whatever) then that's traceable?

SchrodingersImmigrant · 11/05/2021 13:24

[quote 00100001]@SchrodingersImmigrant

Because, what records are they keeping to say an ID card was produced? If they record something (such as ID card number) against a list of names (or whatever) then that's traceable?[/quote]
And your name and address is anonymous???

00100001 · 11/05/2021 13:35

I guess I'm just saying that it's "one step away" from identifying which ballot paper went to which person ... we have a right to anonymous votes.

DynamoKev · 11/05/2021 13:37

@DogInATent

Windrush wouldn't have been prevented by ID cards.

ID cards would have removed the need to provide documentary evidence of residence for every year of your life. I've gone through this with Settled Status.

Only if the ID cards had been properly administered. The failure to do proper admin was the cause of Windrush, simply imagining a different government agency would have done it better is wishful thinking. If there had been proper administration there would have been no need for the year by year proof - that was only required due to the Home Office's ineptitude in the first place.

DynamoKev · 11/05/2021 13:41

To be clear - I think Windrush was despicable and inexcusable. To me its the embodiment of the entire reason I don't want the government to issue me with an ID card.
Because, time and time again in this country, government agencies fuck things up and then try to lie their way out of it.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 11/05/2021 13:41

@00100001

I guess I'm just saying that it's "one step away" from identifying which ballot paper went to which person ... we have a right to anonymous votes.

Unlike literally everyone in all them other countries? Also, again. It's not anonymous if someone doesn't want it to be anonymous already...

The oaranoia is unreal here.

fastandthecurious · 11/05/2021 14:38

@SunflowersAndLavender yes which is fine if your council are organised. Not sure my local council could organise a piss up in a brewery never mind ID cards. Say yours doesn't come on time. So you don't get to vote because you can't afford any other form of photo Id? How is that not voter suppression? I've never personally seen any cases of voter fraud in the news or anything, just seems like a non existent problem really. It just smacks of trying to make it harder for people to vote.

looptheloopinahulahoop · 11/05/2021 14:43

@00100001

but it removes your right to an anonymous vote, surely?

Technically "they" can find out how you voted anyway.

I don't think ID cards are needed to prevent voter fraud - having very tight rules on postal voting would be a better way to prevent that.

However, as I said upthread, having an ID card you could use for everything would be great.

looptheloopinahulahoop · 11/05/2021 14:44

Because, time and time again in this country, government agencies fuck things up and then try to lie their way out of it

but we have photo ID driving licences and passports without too much in the way of cock-ups

DynamoKev · 11/05/2021 14:45

[quote fastandthecurious]@SunflowersAndLavender yes which is fine if your council are organised. Not sure my local council could organise a piss up in a brewery never mind ID cards. Say yours doesn't come on time. So you don't get to vote because you can't afford any other form of photo Id? How is that not voter suppression? I've never personally seen any cases of voter fraud in the news or anything, just seems like a non existent problem really. It just smacks of trying to make it harder for people to vote. [/quote]
Exactly.
A typical government "solution" to a problem that doesn't actually exist whilst being a sneaky opportunity to discourage younger and disadvantaged voters from participating.

Skinnytailedsquirrel · 11/05/2021 14:48

I think an ID card would be a great idea. I have a passport but my driving licence does not have a photo (I'm attached to my old style licence). Don't like carrying a passport about so an ID card would solve so many issues.

DynamoKev · 11/05/2021 14:50

@looptheloopinahulahoop

Because, time and time again in this country, government agencies fuck things up and then try to lie their way out of it

but we have photo ID driving licences and passports without too much in the way of cock-ups

Due the limited scope. A passport mess up can prevent you travelling. The DVLA has made some notorious errors - including making a motorcycle instructor of 30+ years take another test because they had "no record" of his entitlement and removed it from his licence at a 10 year renewal - that stopped him from riding (and working) for while.

But in each case the scope is limited to one issue.

The advocates of ID cards say it's one card for everything - which is fine until it becomes imbedded and needed for everything and the govenment fucks it up in some way and then lies and says everythng is fine (see Post Office Horizon, DVLA, Windrush etc etc etc)

SchrodingersImmigrant · 11/05/2021 15:00

This is a first word country which apparently could not handle ID system even apparently less developed countries are managing.

Sure

PlanDeRaccordement · 11/05/2021 15:06

The advocates of ID cards say it's one card for everything - which is fine until it becomes imbedded and needed for everything and the govenment fucks it up in some way and then lies and says everythng is fine (see Post Office Horizon, DVLA, Windrush etc etc etc)

I don’t know about the post office and dvla, but windrush was caused by a lack of an ID card, not the requirement for one being mismanaged. The windrush people were left with zero official documentation to prove they were legal residents. Now if they’d been issued any sort of residence permits showing their ILR, windrush would never have happened.

DynamoKev · 11/05/2021 15:16

but windrush was caused by a lack of an ID card
No it wasn't. Windrush was caused by the Home Office's destruction of records and subsequent actions including lies.
An ID card might (or might not) have helped highlight the incompetence of the Home Office but there's nothing to suggest it would have prevented Windrush.
At least one of the Windrush victims had his passport confiscated - so no doubt the Home Office would have confiscated his ID card too.

DynamoKev · 11/05/2021 15:17

@Skinnytailedsquirrel

I think an ID card would be a great idea. I have a passport but my driving licence does not have a photo (I'm attached to my old style licence). Don't like carrying a passport about so an ID card would solve so many issues.

What issues would it solve?

lurker101 · 11/05/2021 15:34

I’m one of the many on thread that got an electoral ID card at high school in NI.

Just to add to this - I see several people upthread have mentioned the Citizen ID card which is accepted as Govt. issued ID (and despite the name you don’t need to be British to avail of it). I recently found out Waitrose have a scheme (with leaflets in store) for you to get it at a reduced price - photo ID for £5 in case anyone is interested

www.citizencard.com/apply-for-a-uk-id-card-online

SchrodingersImmigrant · 11/05/2021 15:42

[quote lurker101]I’m one of the many on thread that got an electoral ID card at high school in NI.

Just to add to this - I see several people upthread have mentioned the Citizen ID card which is accepted as Govt. issued ID (and despite the name you don’t need to be British to avail of it). I recently found out Waitrose have a scheme (with leaflets in store) for you to get it at a reduced price - photo ID for £5 in case anyone is interested

www.citizencard.com/apply-for-a-uk-id-card-online[/quote]
I kind of want it now😂

But just 3 years validity? That's annoying for the money tbh🤔