To ask for flexible working / part time hours ahead of interview?

[BatBoo]

I've worked part time (3 days) since returning from my first maternity leave a few years ago. I also flex my hours around the school run, some days doing the drop off and other days the pick up. My employer is very accommodating. However, I've been at the company a long time and want a change. My role is no longer challenging me and I want to progress.

I've applied for something externally which was advertised as full time. The advert did mention something about flexible working opportunities under the company benefits section. As seems to be the case with a lot of employers these days they seem to have a focus on wellbeing and work/life balance.

I've got an initial chat later this week with the hiring manager. AIBU to mention that I would ideally be looking for part time (3 or 4 days) and flexibility around my hours? Could this write me off? Would I be better waiting for interview or even offer stage? Or is this wasting everyone's time if it's a no?

Would really appreciate views on this particularly from those of you in hiring roles.

If it’s advertised as full time then it’s unlikely they want a part timer. If you ask before you are unlikely to be interviewed and if you ask after you may well piss them off! Flexi arrangements aren’t quite the same. Unless the have headhunted you specifically it’s likely the want to employ someone who can fulfill the role they have advertised. Having done a lot of recruiting over the last 12-18 months I can say that this is one of my top bug bears

If there is flexibility in terms of full or part time we will always put it in the advert to expand our pool of potentials. If it says full time it’s because that is what we need

When you say "ideally" do you mean that you'd work full-time if the answer is no, or you'd turn down an offer if part time wasn't possible?

If the latter then I'd discuss it upfront so you don't waste your and their time. If the former then I'd negotiate after an offer.

I always think it's better to get the job first, make them want you then see what can be done. They have nothing to lose to cut you at this point, but if they really like you after interview they're more likely to want to negotiate. The problem is lots of jobs are advertised as "flexible" particularly in the public sector to appear inclusive, but the reality is it would be very difficult to do do part time, it's done to tick a box. Your best bet is to get the job first.

Also tends to be easier to go full time first, then put in a flexible working request.

Flexible working means there may be some give and take as to times when you work, or perhaps you could work from home sometimes depending on the role. Or it may mean that it's not a 9-5 weekday style role so the hours worked are up for discussion. But if they're advertising a full time position there isn't scope for part time working, or that is what they would be advertising.

@sleepyhead

When you say "ideally" do you mean that you'd work full-time if the answer is no, or you'd turn down an offer if part time wasn't possible?

If the latter then I'd discuss it upfront so you don't waste your and their time. If the former then I'd negotiate after an offer.

Exactly this. I'd wait until you've met but at least seed it before a second/final interview.

I do think that if you really want to progress and to move somewhere new you'll have to really think about what matters most to you, whether it's being there for school pickup or focussing on work.

They're both good answers and both can be doing the right thing for the family as well as for you. It's also not forever - once you've proven yourself in a new role it's likely that you can get flex there too. Or if you'd rather stay for a bit, there will be other opportunities in a year or two.

If you have a partner or involved co-parent, this can also be a good opportunity for them to take some flex, it's good for their relationships with DCs and lets you both have a turn at building a career that brings you fulfilment.

In similar circumstances I contacted an employer said I was really interested in the role but could only work 3 (specific) days per week, and if a flexible option came up that could fit my limited working hours I would be interested, but I understood they might say no and sorry for my lack of flexibility. I did get the job (eventually) and they appreciated my straightforward approach.

@Throwntothewolves

Flexible working means there may be some give and take as to times when you work, or perhaps you could work from home sometimes depending on the role. Or it may mean that it's not a 9-5 weekday style role so the hours worked are up for discussion. But if they're advertising a full time position there isn't scope for part time working, or that is what they would be advertising.

That is totally incorrect for many businesses these days. I have recently got a new job, all roles advertised full time, all quite senior and well paid, and all had the ability to reduce hours or flex to some degree.

Yes, a full time role is unlikely to become 3 days a week school hours only. But if you have the right experience or qualifications and get on well with the team, 4 days with 2 days WFH, or working non-standard hours can often be a very realistic discussion to have, especially post-covid.

I've tried asking before yhe interview and even putting it on the application form that I am requesting part time but I have never had any success I'm afraid!

I recently applied for a job and had this same dilemma. I asked around and Googled lots and got a completely mixed bag of responses, as you have above. In the end I didn't mention it at interview, but then I had an informal chat with the hiring manager who was calling me to say they were going to have a second round of interviews, so I brought the subject up then. He didn't rule it out and I still got a second interview - and got the job! I was able to negotiate slightly less than full time hours for the probation period. Only problem is that I could actually work full time at the moment, but once we return to the office, the commute will eat into the hours I have available to work so that's when it will get trickier. But I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

There is a big difference between a three day a week job and full time though. Four days a week could be more realistic. I do believe that employers get a good deal from part time staff though - they get all their energy and ideas and IME people who work part time/have to leave on time to pick up kids tend to work more efficiently to get everything done. They don't tend to be the ones who spend half the day gossiping in the staff kitchen.

Good luck!

Thanks for the replies so far.

Just to add my DP is very much part of the childcare. He works shifts and actually does the majority of school runs. So some weeks he does them all as he's on his days off and I can do my normal office hours.

I'm thinking I will be upfront because I definitely wouldn't want full time at this stage, I would go from 3 to 4 days but that's my limit at the moment.

I do know of friends who've gone for a full time role and negotiated part time after offer but these were internal promotions where I guess they had more leverage.

@Earlgrey666

I've tried asking before yhe interview and even putting it on the application form that I am requesting part time but I have never had any success I'm afraid!

Definitely don't tell them before the first interview unless you are absolutely only able to consider 3 days, for example - I have done a lot of hiring and before interviews you are often overloaded with CVs and basically looking for reasons to send a thanks-no-thanks email. Better to wait until at least you've had a chance to speak with someone and you'll have a better sense if they're worth working extra hours for and they know if they think you'll be better (or at least better value) on 3-4 days than someone else on 5.

@BatBoo

Thanks for the replies so far.

Just to add my DP is very much part of the childcare. He works shifts and actually does the majority of school runs. So some weeks he does them all as he's on his days off and I can do my normal office hours.

I'm thinking I will be upfront because I definitely wouldn't want full time at this stage, I would go from 3 to 4 days but that's my limit at the moment.

I do know of friends who've gone for a full time role and negotiated part time after offer but these were internal promotions where I guess they had more leverage.

If you could do 4 days then I'd still wait for an egg interview.4 days is not far of 5, and can actually make you a good value candidate especially if you're skilled and able to do the same work in 4 days as someone less efficient/experienced/hard-working would get done in 5. If it was only 3 then I'd agree with being upfront.

I’ve always asked and had that initial conversation to find out what the flexi-working/part time options they would consider before applying. I’ve been lucky that both my current and previous role were advertised as full time, the first one was happy for me to go to 0.7 and my current is 0.8. (I would have taken the current job on FT but said I would prefer 0.8 if possible and they appreciated my honesty.)

Not sure where the 'egg' came from!

Also, the job I do currently (and the one I've applied for) is relatively senior. Part time has never been a problem so far and I think my employer gets a great deal as I'm literally on it from the minute I walk in to the minute I leave to get everything done.

I could stay in this role forever but I'm bored and there is no progression and I do think however great I am there are 20+ others doing the exact same as me but full time so they are always prioritised for the exciting stuff and promotions.

Even better! Definitely go for it and sort the hours later. I'd been with my previous employer forever too and wanted to leave but was too scared that I'd never find the same flexibility and see my DCs. I was made redundant along with a lot of the other European employees due to covid and it turned out to be a major blessing in disguise, the world has changed and mid-senior is actually a perfect place to ask for flex - experienced enough that there's trust and your skills are valuable, not so important that you need to be in every meeting. Wish I'd gone for interviews years back! It's really worth a try.

I once emailed an employer to ask whether they were interested in part-time applicants. They said no, but they were advertising a part-time post the next week. That was too many hours for me, so I said so and didn't apply. Then they contacted me to invite me to interview. I re-iterated my maximum, but they said they'd still like to interview me!

“I'm thinking I will be upfront because I definitely wouldn't want full time at this stage, I would go from 3 to 4 days but that's my limit at the moment.“

Sorry, BatBoo but YABVU. Why apply for a full-time role when you don’t want one?
Flexible working doesn’t mean short hours.

In my experience a PT role is usually only advertised when someone leaves or goes on maternity with that contract already in place. New roles are usually always FT as that's what the majority of applicants are wanting.

I've literally just now remembered a conversation I had with a HR colleague about this a while back. She said definitely don't be put of applying for FT positions because of this reason.

I did start initially looking for PT vacancies but at my level/salary they are non existent.

Definitely be upfront. There 3 options. They only want a FTimer and therefore there’s no point of wasting anybody’s time.

They are happy to consider PT but didn’t want to only attract PTs so put it as FT. They might be absolutely fine accommodating your wishes.

They would ideally want a FT person but you are the only candidate worth employing, or by far better than others so will be prepared to compromise to 4 days to have you.

@OverTheRubicon yes this is my exact situation! I feel stuck where I am because my set up is so good and I feel lucky to have it, that it's rare and I'll never get it elsewhere. But maybe I will and I just need to start looking. So that's what I'm doing. If it's a firm no then fair enough, I'll stay where I am and keep looking.

As someone who interviews I'd be grateful for a heads up like this. It depends on the role. If you have special skills that mean you are in demand they might consider you regardless. If they dont want a part-time worker and you don't want to work full time it would be a waste of time for everyone involved to interview.

If you are willing to work full time and want to be a contender for the job just go to interview take a full time role then request part time when you know the lay of the land.

I would raise this when you receive an offer. You'll have more bargaining power then as they'll already be committed and know you are the best candidate. It's often easier to agree to PT/flexible working then to go back to deciding on a different candidate.

Fwiw, my current position was advertised as FT and is based in Central London (I live far out of London, though have worked in London/near for a number of years). I interviewed, was offered the position, and then asked for PT and flexible working (at least 1 day a week at home). They were absolutely happy to accommodate because I was the candidate they wanted.