To think manageable London family life is now for the super rich?

[Notquitemanaging]

Defining manageable here as able to save a little bit and not be putting boiler repairs on credit card...

DH and I definitely privileged. Work in full time pretty well paid jobs - me a teacher, him in large corporate on well over median salary. We wanted to stay in London as both grew up here and so wanted to be near families and now wondering if that was just daft. Put all of our savings into family home deposit for fixer upper in zone four and mortgage 3.5 times joint income so big stretch but not completely mad.

Currently nursery fees for dd aged 2 and breakfast and after school club for ds 5 coming in at about 2k per month, will come down September next year when she can go to school nursery but currently finding ourselves over spending every single month and genuinely not doing anything like eating out, shopping for clothes other than kids or whatever, just things that come up with old house here and there (roof, boiler etc) I keep assuming we’ve messed up somehow and going over it all and can’t find a saving to make. Doesn’t help that we’ve put boiler and roof repairs on credit card so now but more going out each month on those.

Do wonder about the neighbours and if they’re all on secretly massively higher salaries, have a lot more family money or if we’re all in this boat whilst kids are small at least. I’ve been invited to a couple of things recently, just pub nights or whatever with mates where I’ve had to say I can’t afford it right now which feels awkward as a. Think makes people embarrassed and b. Suspect they think am maybe making it up but we really don’t have spare cash at all this year.

Does anyone recognise this situation? Not saying for a second anyone has a god given right to stay in London, wondering if is just generally understood now that to do this without major salaries like 100k plus or significant family help just doesn’t work... at least when kids tiny.

I feel your pain Op. Those early years of childcare were brutal, alongside an early mortgage. OH ended up reducing his hours at work for a few years because of childcare costs. He gradually increased his ours as the children got their 3 year funding and then started full time in school.

It does get easier though and the early years struggle is paying off for us. For example, I can work from home a few days a week because my role is more senior. So I can do the school run.

Yes. You’re right. In nice areas at least. We lived in zone 2 in a lovely family area but we could only afford to rent and couldn’t have a room for each child and our income is 150k. We wouldn’t get the mortgage we need for a 4 bed house on that, just a 2 bed flat. So we moved out of a London for a property more than twice the size of our little rental that was costing us 2k a month. We loved it there but it was the right decision for many reasons! And I can actually park!

We first bought in 2008 (zone 6) so have a decent amount of equity now (though I weep when I look at what those who bought even 4-5 years earlier were able to get!) but I absolutely get you. When the pandemic hit DH’s hours were massively but after commuting costs and childcare costs were removed we were still financially ahead.

A year plus of both of us working from home has coincided with our youngest starting school, so no more nursery fees which even after TFC and 30 hours were eye watering and it’s the first time in 8 years it feels like we’ve had our heads above water financially. I feel hugely guilty that actually we’ve benefited from the pandemic financially when so many have been ruined by it. (It has been epically shit in other ways, particularly with all my family in another country we won’t be able to enter perhaps until 2023-24.)

It’s incredibly hard with young kids. We’ve negotiated with our respective employers that we’ll do 2/3 days a week each in the office when we do go back - even the saving in not needing school breakfast club is £800 a term.

@MsMitford

I think the manageability of a family life in London pretty much directly equates to when you bought, and how much equity you now have. How much you earn feels less significant - I know families in badly paid creative industry types jobs who have disposable income because they bought decades ago, and then (often younger) lawyers, doctors etc who are stuck renting and have no disposable income at all.

This is spot on. To live in London its all about how much equity you have or can generate for a property. You can be on a relatively modest wage but if you bought in the 1990s or earlier you can have amassed a lot of valuable equity.

If you're in your 20s and in a modest wage and don't have wealthy parents or an inheritance I grant you its pretty difficult.

But there are still parts of the London outskirts where its possible to get onto the property ladder. Where I live in SE London for example. Expensive for sure, but not impossible. Zones 1 and 2 if you don't already have a foot on the ladder you'd have to be very wealthy to get a toehold.

Many I know have never bought, and probably never will, but still manage to have a family life in London. Getting on the property ladder is a different issue.

I think the manageability of a family life in London pretty much directly equates to when you bought, and how much equity you now have. How much you earn feels less significant

This.

I'm a Londoner & it's very different now. We have a ok lifestyle (big mortgage) but were helped by parents. Childcare costs are much lower now which does improve things.

This was us with 2 DC under 2.... now much better off since both at school. We were in the red every month on good salaries, it was utterly depressing.

That said, for staying in your zone 4 house you'll be accruing value as your house value goes up faster than your salaries, so don't worry too much about the savings.

Example my neighbour on one side is a nurse & bought her home for maybe 20k in the 80s & retired early, 2nd home etc.

My neighbour on other side earns about 100k (nq) lawyer at big firm paying 2.5k in rent.

It's also quite hard to build equity now particularly when you factor in stamp duty, renovations.

Tbh if we were starting off now we would move out & may even consider it as we want more space. Having family around the corner with young dc has been fantastic though & reduced our childcare bill.

You wonder how other young London families manage - there are basically 4 camps around here:

The Planners bought houses before pregnancy and saved to cover mat leave. Subsequent children deliberately spaced to be affordable. First kid in 30s

The High Fliers may or may not have returned to work but can still easily afford childcare for multiple children regardless thanks to shrewd investment and city jobs. First kid in 40s

The Dependants get free childcare from devoted grandparents and other family financial perks. First kids in 20s

The rest just muddle through and use child tax credits and overdrafts