DS nursery and additional needs diagnosis

[withpeaceandlove]

DS3 was referred by nursery to the additional needs team a few months back & they're coming to observe him next week. I have no experience with this so I'm not sure if iabu but I feel like I've been completely left in the dark and have no idea what's going on despite this being my child.
For example, I'm not sure what additional needs the nursery suspect he has, I think ADHD but nursery keep dropping hints (but never outright saying) that they believe he's autistic. I feel that I should know exactly what he's being assessed for but it's almost like they're too scared to offend me (I wouldn't be offended).
Despite the fact that this has been ongoing for around 6 months now nursery still don't seem to have any solid methods in place to deal with DS behaviour. I was called into the nursery the other day and they asked me for ideas on how to deal with his behaviour as they'd had a really tough day with him and had to put him in a room alone twice as he was being aggressive. They do have a senco but I've never met her or been told she's involved with his care. They also use 'no outside time' as a punishment for him despite the fact that I've told them that this will make him worse.
I'm concerned that the team who are coming to observe aren't going to get a true picture of what DS is like on a day to day basis as the nursery don't seem to have any experience with additional needs/suspected additional needs.
I just feel that I'm completely out of the loop and I'm not sure if the nursery's behaviour is normal? So I'm hoping someone with experience of this can tell me if IABU to be cross at nursery and think that they're handling this all very poorly? I'm tempted to go in on Monday and ask the manager to go through everything with me prior to the observation.

Also not unreasonable for you to ask as many questions as you want to help you understand the process. They'll probably be pleased you're so interested.

Have you been taken him to the GP to ask for a referral l? (community paediatrician if there are no physical/health concerns)

Absolutely do ask the manager for a review. I’m afraid as an SEN parent you have a clear choice here - to be amenable, or effectively to advocate for your child. I spent far too much time tying myself in knots trying to do both. Be polite, of course, but this is a long road peppered with educators who pay lip service to inclusion but secretly judge your parenting to fuck. Feed them a truth drug and they’d confess that they think the real problem is you’re not doing enough. They’re just wrong about that, and you need to be quite forbearing. Some will be better than others. In the mean time insist on knowing exactly what’s going on and start saving for a private assessment with a clinical psychologist.

With an EHCP, the child usually (not always) needs a diagnoses before one is granted and it takes months to get. You would have been asked to contribute your views to it and it is a legal contract which has to be fulfilled. It involves plenty of outside agencies from speech and language therapists to OTs and more. It is reviewed yearly.

When it comes to making a diagnoses for ADHD or ASD then it begins with a referral to a paediatrician, who asks the nursery/school and the parents to fill in a questionnaire. Then based on the answers, you get put on a waiting list for an ADOS assessment which can take months/ years and is usually carried out by a speech and language therapist.

Sorry I don't know if that is helpful but it seems like you're at the beginning of the diagnoses process and small steps need to be taken initially before help can be made and extra support given if needed

How old is he?
We will usually start the ball rolling by making a referral - after discussion with parents - and then our early years team will observe and support while other professionals are coming to do their own assessments.

EHCP tends to be undertaken after a child turns three - although relevant assessments may have been done earlier - and everything pulled into place before the child leaves for school. This would involve parents at each step. We can apply for funding for children who have SEN but this can take a while to be processed so one to one support isn’t always possible.

His key person and room staff will likely have a SENplan in place to help support behaviour and development. It can be very difficult to support children who might be aggressive to others as they do take a lot of watching to help them develop the social skills needed and to keep other children safe and without extra funding the room could just be on basic ratio of staff. However they should be discussing this with you and the strategies they are putting in place. Are they keeping him inside because he pushes other children off equipment? For example. They need to be letting you know why they are making certain decisions.

This is your child. Unless there are protection issues there's no reason that you shouldn't be fully involved in the process. Speak to them and get everything in writing. Best wishes.

An EHCP does not need a diagnosis at all...and this is often used as a way of putting people off applying for them.
As you say ASD assessmens and referrals can take years..years in which a child may flounder, be in the wrong sort of provision and struggle with a lack of support (as do the school struggling to provide that support)
Many children with complex needs, have no diagnosis at all, my Ds wasn't diagnosed until he was 8, but had a 1-1 at preschool and and EHCP from 4.
It is based on the needs of the child NOT the diagnosis.
If in doubt, op, you can apply for one yourself.

@Tumbleweed101 he's three and a half. The not letting him outside thing was just used a punishment, not due to aggression from him.
He can be aggressive at home but usually if I remove him from the situation he can calm down, I've never seen him get to the point where he's got to be removed for the safety of staff and children.
He does kick and headbutt me when he's frustrated though so maybe I've just become desensitised to it. Aggression isn't the biggest issue though, it's more that he doesn't know risk, zones out to the point where you can't get his attention and has a lot of energy, to the point of not being able to sit down to eat or take a bath for more than 2 minutes.

From what you’ve said it doesn’t sound like the nursery are doing anything wrong. They can’t tell you exactly what your ds is being assessed for because it doesn’t work like that, he has to be observed first by someone that can move the process along.

It’s not up to the nursery to provide you with strategies to manage his behaviour, that isn’t their job. They have referred to others who possible could help, and that’s all they can do.

As for them keeping him inside sometimes, it’s impossible to judge whether that is fair of them or not, they are the ones trying to manage the situation in the moment, and it could well be that keeping him in is the best option. They have the whole group to consider, not only your child, especially if your ds is being aggressive.

@NailsNeedDoing he wasn't being aggressive it was used as a punishment for not listening I don't really think that's appropriate but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

It went exactly like this for us when my DS was about the same age OP, identified as needing assessment but no one would risk saying what they thought it was. It felt like a conspiracy of silence, and I was the last to know.
Once the assessment had been done and we had the right involvement it got a lot better, it just takes a while, and until then you’re sort of in a no man’s land just waiting.
Like other posters have said, going forward a different nursery or preschool with better and more proactive sen provision would be a good idea. I should just hold out til you move atm.
Until all the assessments were done and everything was formally in place my DS’ preschool self funded a 1:1 for him, which drastically helped. Could this be an option until things are more sorted? I suspect with that 1:1 attention and supervision with a familiar person things may be better. Their use of punishment for behaviours that he may not be able to help and are part of some additional needs is not at all appropriate. They do sound pretty clueless tbh.
Good luck, I know it’s an incredibly hard time, I felt like my whole world had come crashing down!

I'm going through similar at the moment, nursery flagged concerns over my 3 year old, he has an IEP and a new key worker, I had to do some paperwork and nursery had him assessed via Skype and recordings of him, they have referred him to paediatrics and applied for EHCP. Some of the paperwork had sensory processing disorder with sensory seeking behaviour on but no ones hinted at a possible diagnosis for anything yet

It sounds like his behaviour at home is very challenging as well. I agree losing outside time is not right but I can understand that the nursery are potentially trying lots of different strategies, which I'm sure is what you do at home.

Their ratios will make it challenging to remove him from situations.

I would try and stop thinking about what they're doing wrong and try and be proactive, suggest strategies that work at home and support them in gaining extra support for your son.

I agree with you OP that stopping him going outside completely inappropriate as a 'punishment'.

I think the additional needs team will be there to offer advice and guidance. It is highly unlikely they actually diagnose. They will hopefully be able to suggest more appropriate strategies to the nursery staff.
They may be able advise on the route for assessment e.g. referral to paediatrician and or speech therapy. They may be able to support yhe setting in getting dome additional funding.as well as make referral. I used to work in a similar role but know it varies from area to area.

Hopefully you will find the team helpful. I know it can all seem extremely confusing and stressful

[quote withpeaceandlove]@NailsNeedDoing he wasn't being aggressive it was used as a punishment for not listening I don't really think that's appropriate but everyone is entitled to their opinion. [/quote]
Fair enough, but it is still likely that they had their reasons for doing this and no one on here can make a four judgement unless they were there at the time. They will probably have made it very clear to your ds that he needed to listen or do whatever other specific thing, otherwise he wouldn’t be able to go outside. If your ds chose to continue with the same behaviour, then it’s right that the consequence was followed through. Most three and a half year olds are capable of understanding that they need to do what is asked or they won’t be able to do the thing they want.

As they asked you if you have any tips that work at home to manage his behaviour, they might be open to another suggestion of punishment that you’d be happier with them using when needed. What would you prefer them to do next time your ds refuses to listen?

I am a nursery SENDCo. Please arrange a meeting to discuss you concerns. I would suggest asking for the manager, SENDCo and keyperson to be there.

Before attending the meeting take a look at 'Special Educational Needs and Disability Code of Practice: 0-25 Years'. This sets out your childs rights. Chapter five covers early years.

To date the setting should have done a behaviour analysis record. This is when they record all occasions of aggression. They can then analyse the results to see whether there is a trigger.
They should have a behaviour plan in place, This sets out how staff will deal with any behavioural issues that arise. You should have been involved in suggesting strategies. You should have been given copies of the plan. You and the setting need to be doing a dual approach in how you deal with behaviour. This helps form that approach.
The setting should have done observations at different times to record your childs actions through out the day not just at 'bad' times.
You should have been provided with termly assessments to show where he is educationally. If he is more that two stages behind in any area then a referral should have been made to an outside agency where possible, such as Speech and Language Therapy if he is behind in communication. You should have been involved in that decision.
A plan should have been set up to help him progress. These plans are called different things in different areas, such as IEP, IP, Enhancement plan, etc. The nursery should have reviewed these with you at least every six weeks. If the plan is not working they can stop it, but they must then set up a plan focused on a different area. They cannot just stop it entirely.
Inclusion funding could have been applied for if it is offered in your area. This can then be spent on resources to enhance your childs development.
If concerns continue the additional support team should be contacted to review the case. They can recommend a referral to a Community Paediatrician. In my area we cannot refer without their recommendation.
The Health Visitor can do an ASQ development check. You will need to call and request one. You should be provided with a copy.
You can do observations at home, keep a behaviour chart and note down which strategies work for you. You can ask for that to be added to his notes.
The Additional Support Team are neutral in their approach and will go by their own observations. You can request a meeting with them, but they may not say yes.

If the Health Visitor was involved with those meetings, could it have been an Early Health Panel (EHP) rather than an EHCP? All the acronyms are very confusing at this stage. My son has just been diagnosed with additional needs in Year 1, and up until a few months ago we regularly had meetings between the Health Visitor and school to discuss progress and his health needs and to put a plan into action. This covered many aspects including referral to the community dentist and continence nurse.

Most three and a half year olds are capable of understanding that they need to do what is asked or they won’t be able to do the thing they want.

We are talking about a child who has additional needs. As well as having a child with additional needs, I also have worked for years with preschool children with a wide range of complex needs. Many of whom would not be able to understand what is required of them, and who need careful interventions in order to support them, far beyond if you do X then Y will happen