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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the Government have done a reasonable job of handling this pandemic?

366 replies

EmbarrassedButIAdmitIt · 06/05/2021 22:49

I’ve actually just voted Conservative in my local elections because of it Blush. Not for Boris I might add who I cannot stand but the people actually doing the work behind him.

Considering we have not had a worldwide pandemic in over a hundred years, and the world has changed beyond recognition in terms of people movement since then, obviously it has been a massive learning curve, but I think on the whole we have been pretty well looked after with furlough, self employed support. top up benefits, vaccine production and rollout, etc.

I know there’s been ‘jobs for the boys’ but I don’t think any other political party would have been any different sadly.

We have had a higher death rate than other European countries but TBF we are a small overcrowded island populated by people who don’t like following rules and are stupid enough to believe hysterical conspiracy theories.

I am so grateful that I live in the UK and not somewhere like India, Brazil or even the US.

So AIBU?

OP posts:
MarshaBradyo · 07/05/2021 21:08

Timing needs numbers though not just dates and take into account North / South difference. As some criticism came that lock down followed London timing and not North.

And people also criticise tiers so you need a solution for that.

It’s interesting that people talk about Ardern being early but it was around the same time. Just far earlier on the pandemic curve.

Bearnecessity · 07/05/2021 21:11

Hindsight analysis again...

MarshaBradyo · 07/05/2021 21:11

There’s always going to be posts about ‘watching from overseas’ telling us how poorly we’ve done, like a hobby

But voting shows people want social and economic positivity and they’re ready to move to next stage. Tg

picturesandpickles · 07/05/2021 21:17

Spain and France both locked down about ten days before the UK.

In the UK was the government had been advised to lockdown but didn't, that week where the pubs were open caused a lot of deaths, apparently 25,000 people. Twenty-five thousand people.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-lockdown-coronavirus-death-toll-neil-ferguson-a9559051.html

Interesting to re-read the notes from that committee meeting that Whitty himself singled out testing failures as a UK problem.

ShanghaiDiva · 07/05/2021 21:18

I think we do need to move on and rebuild our economy. However, that does not stop me disagreeing with some of the decisions made during the handling of the pandemic.
With regard to people watching from overseas the comments I received from people was one of concern accompanied by boxes and boxes of masks being sent to us from friends and colleagues in Taiwan, HK, China and Korea.

MarshaBradyo · 07/05/2021 21:21

Pictures how would you have handled the numbers in the North?

They rose quite high when first lockdown ended, would you have done it early and longer - but then doesn’t that just delay the rise

Sinthie · 07/05/2021 21:24

They are a disgrace. How anyone could vote for such corrupt, bare-faced liars is beyond me.

SueSaid · 07/05/2021 21:29

'Spain and France both locked down about ten days before the UK.'

As they were ahead of us on the curve. Look you only have to read mn to see now many objected to the lockdowns we had, they had to be at the right time for the optimum impact as epidemiologists said.

picturesandpickles · 07/05/2021 21:31

@JaniieJones

'Spain and France both locked down about ten days before the UK.'

As they were ahead of us on the curve. Look you only have to read mn to see now many objected to the lockdowns we had, they had to be at the right time for the optimum impact as epidemiologists said.

As my mum used to say to me, if you saw someone go over a cliff would you just follow them?

It is a mathematical curve. What magic thing did Johnson think was going to happen in the UK to prevent us following the same curve?

He had advice from some of the best scientists in the world.

wonderstuff · 07/05/2021 21:32

Also worth remembering that the Biontech and Oxford vaccines were developed by teams of scientists who realized what potential covid had last January and acted accordingly.

Pandemic wasn't a great unknown, it was predicted and planned for, identified as the biggest threat to the UK years ago. SARS and MERS were very recent and we should have taken note and learned.

AnExcellentWalker · 07/05/2021 21:38

15 ways the Tories have made an utter balls up of it.

SueSaid · 07/05/2021 21:42

'It is a mathematical curve. What magic thing did Johnson think was going to happen in the UK to prevent us following the same curve?'

Johnson was being advised by experts. It's all modelling isn't it, behavioural science and epidemiology. Vallance explained all this in the early press conferences, didn't you watch them?

The thing is, Scotland has had a much worse pandemic number wise but because Sturgeon is popular with the nats so she is treated like a hero. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

ShanghaiDiva · 07/05/2021 21:46

What about the inconsistencies/contradictions in this expert advice?
Mask are of no benefit
Wait, now we all need masks.
Schools are safe.
Wait, 8 hours later schools are not safe.
No need to quarantine arrivals.
Wait, we should quarantine arrivals.

picturesandpickles · 07/05/2021 21:49

@JaniieJones

'It is a mathematical curve. What magic thing did Johnson think was going to happen in the UK to prevent us following the same curve?'

Johnson was being advised by experts. It's all modelling isn't it, behavioural science and epidemiology. Vallance explained all this in the early press conferences, didn't you watch them?

The thing is, Scotland has had a much worse pandemic number wise but because Sturgeon is popular with the nats so she is treated like a hero. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

Johnson ignored the advice to lock down. The whole 'let's keep the pubs open but say people shouldn't go' was his personal dithering.

If you like Johnson that is fine but the facts are that he was advised to lock down and he dithered. As he did in September too.

SueSaid · 07/05/2021 21:59

'What about the inconsistencies/contradictions in this expert advice?'

Well that happens obviously. Thing is, England has had a similar result infection wise and sad deaths as the other 3 nations and Europe. However you and others seem very desperate to suggest this was all Johnson's doing, it wasn't. It was a pandemic that originated in China and some of the anger should be directed there, as they covered it up initially which has been well documented.

Do we even know if they've stopped the disgusting wildlife markets?! If not have they actually introduced any health and safety procedures in the animal markets, any education regarding selling animals? That is what bothers me because until the alleged cause is addressed we'll be in this situation again.

ShanghaiDiva · 07/05/2021 22:15

Markets which deal with the trade of exotic species have been banned in China since Feb of last year. It is, of course, vital that such bans continue to be enforced. Standards of hygiene in markets vary massively in China from the slick supermarkets in Shanghai to open air markets selling non refrigerated meat which are common in many areas. Raising standards is not just a question of education but also addressing poverty and raising living standards.

But as you so pleasantly pointed out upthread I’m just some mumsnetter who lived in China for 12 years so feel free to ignore me, especially if my comments don’t fit your anti China narrative.

Tealightsandd · 07/05/2021 22:38

@JaniieJones

'What about the inconsistencies/contradictions in this expert advice?'

Well that happens obviously. Thing is, England has had a similar result infection wise and sad deaths as the other 3 nations and Europe. However you and others seem very desperate to suggest this was all Johnson's doing, it wasn't. It was a pandemic that originated in China and some of the anger should be directed there, as they covered it up initially which has been well documented.

Do we even know if they've stopped the disgusting wildlife markets?! If not have they actually introduced any health and safety procedures in the animal markets, any education regarding selling animals? That is what bothers me because until the alleged cause is addressed we'll be in this situation again.

It was entirely within our control whether or not to import Covid from China. Boris and the government chose to import it. We didn't have to. China didn't. They (sensibly) kept us out (or required real quarantine), after they had contained Covid and we had allowed it to spread.
beguilingeyes · 07/05/2021 22:43

Johnson missed the first fiv Cobra meetings because he was sorting out his private life.
When Spain was already in lockdown they allowed thousands of Madrid football supporters into Liverpool to spread the virus.
But he's done all he could.
"Operation Last Gasp". The man is despicable

UrAWizHarry · 07/05/2021 23:11

@Bearnecessity

The UK has been honest and accurate in its reporting of covid deaths unlike an awful lot of other countries.

The death rate is not the responsibility of the tories, there was a pandemic which they responded to with care and energy and commitment to look after everyone in the UK.

If Labour had been in power, I expect the death rate would have been far worse.

The death rate is not the responsibility of the tories? Fucking hell, stay away from whatever you've been taking.
Bearnecessity · 07/05/2021 23:28

I have been taking tea, a G and T and a bag of skips. Holy shit I'd better back away from the baby bel ...

echt · 08/05/2021 00:08

If Labour had been in power, I expect the death rate would have been far worse

What ifs are silly. Look at what was done. And yes, the death rate is entirely the government's responsibility. Lies, prevarication and procrastination characterised all their responses to the pandemic.

Bearnecessity · 08/05/2021 00:23

I can't be arsed to rehash already much covered answers to this so I suggest you read all the posts on this....

What ifs are not silly...what if .....is one of the most powerful phrases in the English language....

Blossominspring2021 · 08/05/2021 00:23

Public Health professional here and no, they have not done a good job.

In fact I spent most of last year absolutely horrified. I’m afraid I would also count SAGE in that in the early days (but they did get better).

There were doctors begging for PPE and for covid testing in the first wave. Remember that? When they decided because of lack of tests to only test those with symptoms, and not those in care homes, or doctors.

The delay in the first lockdown prolonged it by weeks (yes one week earlier and the first lockdown will have lasted at least a month less).

Bungled purchasing of equipment. Often to Boris’s mates. Billions given to ‘mates’.

Test and trace cost billions and an absolute joke. Regional public health were crying out to lead it and eventually got more power, because they are trained professionals but were being ignored.

The message of covid was airborne didn’t get through for months and months after the evidence was clear it wasn’t surfaces but transmitted through the air.

Totally ignoring school transmission for months.

Vaccination programme very good but was not because of the government, but because of NHS led organisation.

No serious management of flights and quarantine.

Thousands of lives needlessly lost. We are not alone, the US was similarly awful as were many European countries such as Sweden, Spain, Belgium. We have a lot to learn.

Blossominspring2021 · 08/05/2021 00:41

@ShanghaiDiva

What about the inconsistencies/contradictions in this expert advice? Mask are of no benefit Wait, now we all need masks. Schools are safe. Wait, 8 hours later schools are not safe. No need to quarantine arrivals. Wait, we should quarantine arrivals.
There weren’t inconsistencies in expert advice, however some people were given credibility by the government on no basis whatsoever. (Such as those from the Great Barrington meeting in Downing Street).

As it was a pandemic the evidence was emerging all the time. What it took, and what many nations did well, was keeping up with the evidence and also good critical thinking.

Japan, for example, put out the message of
“Three Cs” (closed spaces, crowded places, and close-contact settings) From the beginning of the pandemic.

How did they know this before the strong evidence of it being airborne and in closed spaces appeared?

Japan really looked at the emerging evidence in a robust and critical way. And by evidence, it wasn’t just ‘experts’, it wasn’t just previous knowledge, it was where the virus tended to spread most. Which was:
In households
On buses
In workplaces
In hospitals
In restaurants
In taxis
In churches

Who was spreading it?
Families to each other
Healthcare professionals
Care homes

How was it spreading?
Explosions of case numbers rising exponentially in localities
Vulnerable and old people seem most affected

What do these all tell us? That close contacts, being indoors, with more people that we know or are physically close to is the most risky. That sometimes it seems to spread more (what we now know as super spreading events which is why big numbers of people are so dangerous), and that older and more vulnerable people are most affected.

We could see that from the start if only we’d looked. Schools have never been ‘safe’ we just didn’t have evidence that they were very ‘unsafe’ - which is very different. People talked about schools being safe from two studies in the UK where summer schools with only a tiny amount of students in big classes with low covid numbers circulating. Of course that’s not good evidence! It’s not rocket science.

Quarantine, isolation and lockdown have been the backbone of public health response to transmittable diseases for centuries. We knew that all along also. That wasn’t new evidence, people just don’t know what way is up any more.

namechangingforthis19586 · 08/05/2021 00:43

The AZ was sheer luck that they had a brilliant woman scientist to hand.