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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are Airbnb's booking policies sexist?

169 replies

pileapetals · 06/05/2021 11:06

Last April, I cancelled an overseas holiday due to Covid (planes weren't flying, was the responsible thing to do anyway, etc.) Airbnb credited my account instead of giving me a refund at the time (a refund was not an option).

This year, I find out I'm pregnant and due date is end November. Airbnb's credit expires end December this year. As I'm pregnant (ie. lower immunity) and still have no idea when I can get my covid shots, it's unreaslistic to expect travel whilst pregnant, and definitely don't see myself taking a holiday in December with an infant just a few weeks old.

So I call Airbnb and ask for the credit to be extended for a year so the credit doesn't go to waste. Airbnb flat out refuses, saying "you agreed to our terms and conditions". I escalate the case, and get passed from one male representative to another male rep. I again explain why I would be unable to travel given the ongoing uncertainties relating to travel in my current condition. The rep insists that they won't do anything and the voucher will just have to expire. Though he's fully aware of my condition and the enhanced risks that Covid poses to those pregnant, he further adds that they won't do anything because their policies need to reflect "equality and impartiality".

Implicit in his statement is that he cannot make an exception for pregnant women because it's not something that can be applied to male customers. I find his statement and Airbnb's booking policy extremely sexist. By his definition of what is equality and impartiality, maternity leave should not exist in the world because that's a benefit that is extended only to the gender capable of giving birth, and health insurers cannot extend coverage for screening of prostate cancer since that's only a test applicable to men but not women. What a horrible world that would be!

In my view, Airbnb's booking policy makes no consideration for the one of the most basic biological phenomenon on the planet: pregnancy, the very thing that gives us all life.

I can let the voucher expire worthless and waste my money, but I don't see why I should, especially since I've done nothing wrong here?! Unless Airbnb's view is that my one crime is being pregnant whilst in a Covid world?!

AIBU to think they are being ridiculous for refusing to extend the voucher validity here?

OP posts:
pinkscrunchy · 06/05/2021 19:58

@cs98127634

I listened to a podcast where a mother was struggling with her MH just after baby was born. They booked a cottage in the county and escaped everything for a little while and focused on time with the baby. You might find that you are really glad to have the voucher.
True. My husband and I were having a bit of a joint panic attack about our new baby and spontaneously decided to book a few nights away. It was really nice.
janeapple111 · 06/05/2021 20:10

@KizzyMoo

Oh op I really wanted to be on your side on this one. But you chose to have a baby at an uncertain time (congrats!) YABU though
What makes you think that she chose?

Lots of contraception fails.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo · 06/05/2021 20:20

Go somewhere near enough to home to get to your hospital in an emergency but still lovely accommodation with interesting things to do.

shivawn · 06/05/2021 20:24

Booking non-refundable is always a risk, just need to accept it when things don't work out unfortunately.

lookylookyhooky · 08/05/2021 08:57

What WOULD be sexist is making special allowances for women because they CHOSE to get pregnant. Can’t believe the entitlement so many women have on here.

Zalto · 08/05/2021 10:52

What makes you think that she chose?

Lots of contraception fails.

Surely you realise that an unplanned pregnancy and having an unplanned baby are two very different things?

OP, I’m with the majority. You have an option to use the voucher, just not in the way your prefer. That’s not AirBnB’s fault.

You’re not being discriminated against, you’re actually being treated the same as everyone else, you just seem to think that you’re a special case.

CirclesWithinCircles · 08/05/2021 10:55

@lookylookyhooky

What WOULD be sexist is making special allowances for women because they CHOSE to get pregnant. Can’t believe the entitlement so many women have on here.
No, it wouldn't. Equality laws exist to ensure equality of opportunity, not to make men and women the same, or to treat disabled and non disabled people the same, etc..

The CMA has issued government guidance on this issue, which Air BnB have not followed - read previous posts. The emphasis nowadays in on protection of consumers, not arbitrary and restricted offers of compensation by companies.

lookylookyhooky · 08/05/2021 12:36

@CirclesWithinCircles but this isn’t about equality of opportunity. The OP wants equality of outcome. Vast difference between the two.

CirclesWithinCircles · 08/05/2021 12:40

[quote lookylookyhooky]@CirclesWithinCircles but this isn’t about equality of opportunity. The OP wants equality of outcome. Vast difference between the two.[/quote]
Utter nonsense! Youre really tieing yourself in knots to justify sexism here!

lookylookyhooky · 08/05/2021 16:50

@CirclesWithinCircles Not at all. Nobody should expect existing rules to be changed for them just because they have a subsequent change in circumstances. Companies nor anyone for that matter are under any obligation to do so.

Basically.... Suck it up.

Shopliftersoftheworldunite · 08/05/2021 17:47

Getting knocked up was a choice. And it wasn’t a choice made by Airbnb. Own your decisions, OP.

DolphinFC · 08/05/2021 19:43

The only sexism here is from the OP.

Also, playing the sexism card when there is no sexism makes it harder to convince people when real sexism occurs.

Lou98 · 08/05/2021 20:11

By his definition of what is equality and impartiality, maternity leave should not exist in the world because that's a benefit that is extended only to the gender capable of giving birth, and health insurers cannot extend coverage for screening of prostate cancer since that's only a test applicable to men but not women. What a horrible world that would be!

Sorry but from this part of your op alone YABU and ridiculous! With regards to maternity leave - men do now get paternity leave with most companies offering shared parental leave so it can be split between the two.

Prostate cancer is a serious health problem that was not by choice - it is in no way comparable to pregnancy!

I think Air BnB have already been really generous giving you over a year and a half to use the voucher - you haven't used it yet and that's completely your choice, you could have used it for a short stay in the UK when restrictions were lifted both prior to being pregnant and since you have been.
I can understand not wanting to travel abroad but going away for a long weekend in the UK to an Air BnB that is private so would only be you and your partner or whoever, is no more risky than being at home.

Pregnancy is a choice you made during a pandemic, why should Air BnB extend their voucher further to accommodate that choice? You're choosing not to use the voucher, not that you can't use it.

I'm also currently pregnant and wouldn't expect any special treatment because of a choice I made.

On a practical note, do you know anyone that would like the holiday that would buy it off you? At least you wouldn't lose your money then. If not, your only options are to go away somewhere or take the loss

elliejjtiny · 08/05/2021 20:46

Yabu. Just wondering what makes you so high risk that you have to stay at home for the next 8 months? Sorry to be cynical but I've seen so many people be really over dramatic about stuff in recent years. With all the people who are high risk for something or being rushed to hospital it makes me wonder whether there are any people left who rarely visit the Dr or hospital.

HandlebarLadyTash · 08/05/2021 21:17

Get on Twitter, a public complaint often helps change minds

CirclesWithinCircles · 08/05/2021 22:45

[quote lookylookyhooky]@CirclesWithinCircles Not at all. Nobody should expect existing rules to be changed for them just because they have a subsequent change in circumstances. Companies nor anyone for that matter are under any obligation to do so.

Basically.... Suck it up.[/quote]
Don't be ridiculous. The CMA (which another poster has kindly linked to upthread) has posted guidelines which state that companies should refund consumers as the rules on frustration of contract apply when the contract cannot be performed due to illegality/impossibility due to the pandemic.

The fact that holiday companies, airlines and AirBnB are offering refunds instead of refunding does not mean it is correct. Customers should be given a choice.

On top of that, such a policy of refunds may have an indirectly discriminatory effect on certain protected categories.

Again, this is all explained upthread. But don't let the law hold you back on espousing your views on the internet.

I just hate seeing consumers misled by tosh.

lookylookyhooky · 08/05/2021 23:28

@CirclesWithinCircles I think you’re being utterly ridiculous. What you’ve written is irrelevant to the situation. OP got pregnant... it really is as simple as that.

CirclesWithinCircles · 08/05/2021 23:38

[quote lookylookyhooky]@CirclesWithinCircles I think you’re being utterly ridiculous. What you’ve written is irrelevant to the situation. OP got pregnant... it really is as simple as that.[/quote]
I'm beginning to suspect that you work in the travel industry and thats why you are saying such strange things. Because if all those consumers who were offered vouchers instead of their money back when their flights were cancelled wake up and take legal action, theres going to be a lot of redundancies.

Why on earth would the law be irrelevant to this question?

Hers what another poster cut and pasted from a UK government agency on the issue.

""In some circumstances, due to lockdown laws, a contract cannot go ahead as agreed or at all, and is therefore ‘frustrated’. A contract will be frustrated as a matter of law if, due to no fault of the parties, something happens after the contract was entered into which means it can no longer be performed at all or performance would be radically different to what was agreed.

As a result, the contract comes to an end and, where consumers have paid money in advance for services or goods that they have yet to receive, they will generally be entitled to obtain a refund.

They will also not be required to make further payments.

In particular, for most consumer contracts, the CMA would expect a consumer to be offered a full refund where:

a business has cancelled a contract without providing any of the promised goods or services
no goods or services are provided by a business because this is prevented by the lockdown laws
a consumer is prevented from receiving any goods or services, because, for example, lockdown laws in the UK or abroad have made it illegal to receive or use the goods or services
In most cases, consumers will contact a business to ask for their money back, but there is no requirement for consumers formally to communicate with a business before becoming entitled to a refund.

Examples of legal restrictions in lockdown laws include:

restrictions imposed under the original lockdown laws in the early stages of the pandemic
restrictions imposed by local lockdown laws
specific restrictions imposed by local authorities under their legal lockdown powers
mandatory self-isolation following a direction from a public health officer
mandatory self-isolation when returning to the UK from certain countries which may affect the consumer’s ability to use a service during the self-isolation period (provided that the requirement to self-isolate was imposed after the consumer had entered into the relevant contract and was not reasonably anticipated by the consumer)
If laws in another country prevent a business from providing a service under a contract with a UK consumer or prevent that consumer from receiving the service, then in most cases consumers will also be entitled to a refund.

Businesses should not require consumers to take unreasonable or unnecessary steps in order to obtain refunds. A business imposing such barriers may breach consumer protection law by doing so.

(then a paragraph about certain exemptions where part of a service has already been provided)

Credits and re-booking
Consumers can normally be offered credits, vouchers, re-booking or re-scheduling as an alternative to a refund, but they should not be misled or pressured into doing so. A refund should still be an option that is just as clearly and easily available.

In particular, businesses should not give consumers the impression that they are not entitled to a cash refund where that is their legal right, and in the CMA’s view this would be likely to breach consumer protection law.

Any restrictions that apply to credits, vouchers, re-booking or re-scheduling must also be fair and made clear to consumers."

huuskymam · 09/05/2021 00:26

It's not sexist, it's their policy for everyone. You're looking for special treatment because you're pregnant. Sell it on to someone or use it within the uk.

Ellerica · 09/05/2021 00:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

lookylookyhooky · 09/05/2021 21:19

@CirclesWithinCircles. Irrelevant. The company had a policy and they have stuck to that policy, the only person who hasn’t is the OP. This is why terms and conditions exist. Can you imagine the money companies would lose if they made exceptions for everyone with a sob story? That isn’t how business works I’m afraid. For the record, I certainly do not work in the travel industry, I just can’t stand the level of entitlement so many people seem to have these days. It is mind boggling.

ImInStealthMode · 09/05/2021 21:25

I work for a travel company and while luckily we are small and personal and can make exceptions where possible, being pregnant would not be an excuse to avoid cancellation charges for example. Illness or injury preventing travel can't be controlled, pregnancy can. Your life choices are not our businesses problem. YABU.

CirclesWithinCircles · 09/05/2021 21:40

[quote lookylookyhooky]@CirclesWithinCircles. Irrelevant. The company had a policy and they have stuck to that policy, the only person who hasn’t is the OP. This is why terms and conditions exist. Can you imagine the money companies would lose if they made exceptions for everyone with a sob story? That isn’t how business works I’m afraid. For the record, I certainly do not work in the travel industry, I just can’t stand the level of entitlement so many people seem to have these days. It is mind boggling.[/quote]
Well, you better tell the governments and all the lawyers of the UK that they are wrong and you are right. Clearly, all the legislation will have to be rewritten too.

Companies can obviously override all statutory protections in your world, simply by putting it in their terms and conditions.

Who knew it was so easy! Grin

lookylookyhooky · 09/05/2021 21:44

@CirclesWithinCircles the legislation in place doesn’t cover this particular situation! It is entirely irrelevant. You’re becoming hysterical now. Copying and pasting links doesn’t make you correct.