About things ex tells the kids

[Beachtrip]

Back story:

Abusive ex, two kids, left him. Went through court and ended up with an order of EOW and as little direct contact as possible between us.

That was 4 years ago. Things have never fully smoothed out. Undermines me at every opportunity. Bad mouths me etc, bad mouths their friends. Etc etc.

The most recent is that he has told the kids (8&6) that I'm an alcoholic.
People who drink alcohol are alcoholics. He's Muslim so doesn't drink at all.
But he tells the kids they should tell me to stop drinking.
I'm not. I drink sometimes, with friends, sometimes the kids are present - like a bbq, Friday night dinner with friends etc. Few glasses of Prosecco or couple pints etc.
I get blackout drunk, I'm fully capable of caring for my kids at all times.

This particular accusation has upset my 8yr old. She doesn't understand why he's saying it and doesn't like it.

I've drafted an email to send to him, the main reason is so it's on record. But I'm hesitant as he will then be angry and take this out on the kids.

Should I send it? Or just let it slide and explain to the kids that it's not cool to say that about me.

Just say, "Oh how would Daddy know? He doesn't see Mummy!" Then send the shitty email.

It's a tough one, you can't really control what he's saying but it's bound to upset your kids which must be very upsetting for you. I suppose you could say to your children that daddy doesn't drink so he doesn't really understand and not to take any notice of what he says about that and that you're definitely not an alcoholic

Damn good point.
I have said that before about similar things.
When he says my flat is always dirty and I don't keep good hygiene at home.
How would he know?

This makes me so angry, as he’s clearly not someone who should be having unsupervised contact and yet the courts always give it.

I’d send the email, and consider going back to court if he persists.

I feel with people like him any contact is fuel for them. Don't engage. After years of bad mouthing me and me never talking to him or engaging with him, my adult kids have practically no contact with my awful ex at all now. He realised he was getting no reaction and the kids saw by my example that I am a good mother and person. Be confident in yourself and disengage from him. It sounds like he's trying to get a reaction and rise from you. Good luck.

I would explain it to your daughter as a cultural difference. Your ex doesn't agree with drinking alcohol. Lots of people think drinking alcohol in moderation is ok. Explain what an alcoholic is, and that you are not one. I wouldn't write to him as getting a reaction might just lead to him ramping it up.

@HotPenguin

I would explain it to your daughter as a cultural difference. Your ex doesn't agree with drinking alcohol. Lots of people think drinking alcohol in moderation is ok. Explain what an alcoholic is, and that you are not one. I wouldn't write to him as getting a reaction might just lead to him ramping it up.

Yes exactly what I think only you put it much more eloquently than me

Did he marry you and then have children. If not, I would point out to the kids there's other things he does/done which isn't Muslim of him, so he can't really sit and judge about the alcohol when he has no idea how much or how little your drinking. Send the email, if he's horrible to the kids, they will eventually choose not to see him

The problem is that he believes drinking alcohol is wrong so even a few drinks a month he sees as unacceptable. I personally wouldn't bother entering into a discussion with him over it but do document it if you can get proof in case things escalate.

Well,

We had our first child and then got married.
He happily bought me alcoholic drinks on dates at the beginning.

I have explained the cultural differences.
But it's upsetting her.
She's already hates going to see him and is miserable most of the time she's there.

CAFCASS and Social Services take parental alienation quite seriously.

I'd email and tell him that the children repeatedly come home upset that he is slandering you (also an offense) and that if he continues to do so then you will re-consider whether him having contact is in their best interests. Tell him he is welcome to pursue this through the courts and remind him that if he is going to make accusations like your mother is an alcoholic that he will need firm evidence of this.

The courts often take dimly to parents who behave like this.

Just seen a hilarious typo in my original post...

I DONT get blackout drunk.

Just had 8 in tears as he has also been saying my father (her grandpa who died last year) was also an alcoholic and that's why he got sick and died.
(He had a stroke 4 years ago and has been in a home since. She's desperately upset as COVID meant she didn't get to say goodbye)

Honestly, from experience, cafcass and social services didn’t take it seriously at all. They openly admitted they could see both children were heavily influenced by the other parent, were inappropriately protective of them and could see evidence of alienation and manipulation - their words not mine - but still did nothing to support the enforcement of the court order that gave residence to the other parent.

They’ll note it, but in my experience without really serious abuse or neglect, they’ve other priorities.

This is my concern.
I had a bad enough experience the first time around and my daughter was interviewed by them at the time and then sent back to visitation with her father.
She is able to articulate that she wasn't believed then so won't be believed a second time around.

I’m in the don’t engage camp

Grey rock 🪨 , google it

It will just fuel him further and he will like that he is ruling you

I also learnt to never do anything when angry (not that I follow !) but with an abuser it’s always best

It’s more
Important to craft a conversation with the kids where you very delicately calm their concerns

I go grey rock myself.
But this is affecting the children.

Personally I couldn't care les what he says bout me. He's full of shit and pompous opinion. But it's upsetting the kids.
Had a chat last night with them and I think they are better today, but it will continue to happen.

If it's not this then it's something else. That's what they have to learn. This is who he is.

Is your daughter being given the good little Muslim girl treatment when she is with him? He sounds like he is someone who uses his faith to belittle others so it would not surprise me if he had expectations of her as a girl when he has them which are alien to her assuming you are not a Muslim household.

Could you find a Muslim contact - perhaps through a women's centre or school that could talk to your kids about the Muslim faith and the right way of applying it - maybe a source of a "fact checker" for some of his crap. Might also help you understand what he is expecting of her in the future.

We're not Muslim at home.

But definitely, she helps with food and laying the table etc, her brother plays computer games.
No mention so far of fasting or head covers but time will tell I guess.

Good idea on a fact checking third party. Might be worth a shot

Can your daughter say to him "stop saying bad things about mummy"? I totally understand that she probably doesn't feel she can. But I finally snapped and did this to my grandma when she slandered my dad. I was a few years older, but I remember vividly, just flipping, and shouting at her not to say things about my dad and that I loved him. I was the shyest and most scared child, and I have no idea where that came from!
I remember how shocked she looked, and believe it or not, SHE cried. Bizarre.

From what she tells me, she has said things like that. And he says they aren't bad, just the truth. And the truth isn't always positive.

We've had chats around "my truth", where people have a different perspective on a situation and both believe that their version of events is the truth and the other is wrong, but not lying.
This helps her somewhat.

We've also been in situations where one or other of the kids has called him out (like on a FaceTime call - also court ordered) and he's back tracked massively and afterwards they sit with me desperately trying to convince me that he changed his story and was lying on the call. Which I fully believe, I can see him back track and gaslight them into thinking they misunderstood.

@HotPenguin

I would explain it to your daughter as a cultural difference. Your ex doesn't agree with drinking alcohol. Lots of people think drinking alcohol in moderation is ok. Explain what an alcoholic is, and that you are not one. I wouldn't write to him as getting a reaction might just lead to him ramping it up.

This. Perfect. Your ex is being a jerk, but more helpful for your children to understand religious / cultural differences.