To think keeping a whole class back because of 1 or 2 disruptive kids isn't fair?

[lastyearscalendar]

DCs class have been kept in to miss 5 or 10 minutes of their breaktime on a fairly regular basis recently. DC says this is because there are 2 classmates who are particularly disruptive. The whole class then gets punished because these two particular children aren't quietening down or staying in the line or whatever else is going on.

Last week they were kept back for almost 10 minutes at the end of the day resulting in being late out to the playground to be collected and then this knocked onto an already tight timescale to get DC to their after school activity.

AIBU to think this is grossly unfair?

I guess it’s done with the hope the culprits will stop because the classmates will get pissed off with them.

I'd speak to the teacher. Making pick up late isn't on.

@Youdontknowwhatyoureonabout

I guess it’s done with the hope the culprits will stop because the classmates will get pissed off with them.

It doesn't seem to be bothering them from what I can gather!!

Just because your child perceives it to be just 2 doesn’t mean it was just 2, but I’d speak to the teacher and get her version of events first.

No this isn't fair. But DS's perception may not be correct.
I'd mention it to teacher, but be prepared for them to say that it's actually more than just a couple of them.

Have you seen Full Metal Jacket? The principle is punish everyone in the hope that they will exert pressure on the disruptive people to improve.

It's a pretty common tactic in schooling. In the old days everyone might have got the cane, so really being kept back for ten minutes isn't really an issue.

It really shouldn’t matter if it’s 10 of 20 Or 28 of 30. I’ve got no sympathy for teachers who use group punishment. The kids who follow the rules should not be punished.

I would also speak to the teacher about needing to stay on your schedule.

I also agree with PP I don't believe in group punishment when there's only a few being naughty.
It's not up to the kids to exert pressure on the naughty kids.
It's up to the teachers to deal with their behaviour.

@Thisnamewasnttaken123

I also agree with PP I don't believe in group punishment when there's only a few being naughty. It's not up to the kids to exert pressure on the naughty kids. It's up to the teachers to deal with their behaviour.

This is what I'm thinking. Its not right to use peer pressure to address poor behaviour IMO!

@skirk64 but creating a knock on effect at the end of the day because of poor behaviour when everyone's trying to get off for the day isn't really on?

When my DC's were at primary they did this a few times and it was the same couple of children .Got tired of my one DC constantly losing part of their break and got pretty fed up and emailed the school .They were a really good school to be fair but on this I didn't agree .After I emailed my DC wasn't kept in again. But then I am pretty straight to the point .

I think that this is a time for you to get “extremely interested” in how the class sanctions are applied. When your child is late out of school, send an email explaining that this has made you late for XYZ. As this has happened X times, you’d like a meeting with the teacher to find out what the issue is in relation to your child’s behaviour.

@Youdontknowwhatyoureonabout

I guess it’s done with the hope the culprits will stop because the classmates will get pissed off with them.

Which hasn't worked since the dawn of time...

Local councils do it too. They close eg a car park because boy racers have been doing handbrake turns in it, so punish everyone, because they are too lazy to deal with the actual perpetrators.

It's very lazy and schools should not use it as a form of discipline. Although when I was in what is now Y8 my whole class was put on report. I don't even remember what "we" did to deserve such a punishment now!

@CruCru

I think that this is a time for you to get “extremely interested” in how the class sanctions are applied. When your child is late out of school, send an email explaining that this has made you late for XYZ. As this has happened X times, you’d like a meeting with the teacher to find out what the issue is in relation to your child’s behaviour.

Yes, this is a good idea. What is your child doing to warrant such a sanction. You might find they're one of the culprits, in which case, fine, but if they are not, the teacher will have to provide an explanation for why they are punishing children for things they have not done.

Having been in a class with a few disruptive kids in early secondary school, and lost entire break times multiple times a week, I always thought this was so unfair. As a teacher I’d never use it. If the majority of the class were lined up or whatever, I’d send those out, making a big deal of doing so ‘John, you’re standing quietly, thank you, you may go. Oh and you Tom, out you go, as you’re showing me you’re ready’. Then only the trouble makers are left behind. Appreciate this may not be possible at the end of the day when dismissing kids though as teacher can’t be in 2 places at once. Being very late out at pick up is something I always avoid due to the impact on families with other pick ups, clubs and so on.

In the old days everyone might have got the cane, so really being kept back for ten minutes isn't really an issue

Yes, in ye oldene days everyone got the cane whether they were being naughty or not. My mum got it for "dumb insolence". They just said if you weren't guilty that time it would do for the next time.

Being kept back for 10 minutes is an issue if it means you miss transport or an important appointment. And it isn't good enough to make innocent children miss an activity.

If kids are messing around, deal with the ones messing around.

No it isn't fair.
In my DC primary they lose golden time for bad behaviour.
DD would be really upset if they lost it.
It made the troublemaker enemy no.1 and I know the parents of one particular troublemaker they weren't great the boy was hated by everyone.

Yeah I'm a teacher and thought schools were largely moving away from group punishment. Certainly my current school, along with the previous one where I worked, have a policy of no class detentions.

@CruCru

I think that this is a time for you to get “extremely interested” in how the class sanctions are applied. When your child is late out of school, send an email explaining that this has made you late for XYZ. As this has happened X times, you’d like a meeting with the teacher to find out what the issue is in relation to your child’s behaviour.

This bit

I think that this is a time for you to get “extremely interested” in how the class sanctions are applied. When your child is late out of school,

and this bit

you’d like a meeting with the teacher to find out what the issue is in relation to your child’s behaviour.

are the bits that you could email.

That it has made the OP late is of no relevance to the teacher.

It isn’t fair, but it’s not always done for the peer pressure suggestion above. Sometimes it’s really difficult to identify who is not ready to be dismissed, because too many choose to break the silence the second it’s achieved (and you need silence to impart a final reminder, thank you, instruction etc).

In this frustrating, exhausting, dispiriting kind of situation I find it more successful to identify a table or two that are complying and dismiss them that way, so they are not punished for the non-compliance of others.

Had this is when my daughter was in year 6. There was about 3 children who for whatever reason were pains in the arse and as a result the whole class got kept in for the entire break time more than once. The idea was I think that the rest of the class would be pissed off with them and pressure them to stop. Weirdly, it didn’t work as the naughty ones didn’t give a shit how the majority of the class felt. Myself and several other parents complained to the teacher after the first probably 3 or 4 times it happened and eventually(!) the teacher agreed it wasn’t working and stopped doing it.

I remember the same thing happening when I was at school. It didn’t bloody work then either god knows why some teachers still try it.

I remember the most boring hour of my life at primary school.

Two kids who were notorious dickheads wouldn’t stop pissing about, so the whole class had to miss story time and sit in silence doing nothing for an hour...

I was about 8 and I’m still salty tbh

No it's not fair, and very poor practice.
However much the poor teacher may be ground down by attempting to teach the class while managing the behaviour of these two pupils (and that of the rest of the clas as well, who are likely at the very least to get a bit ragged round the edges during the process), punishing the whole class is a) not the answer b) likely to be counterproductive.

I might just check that the miscreant being kept back at the end of the day, isn't your DC.

Very, very unlikely that the teacher is using whole class punishments because of the behaviour of two, easily identifiable pupils.