If you're from Cornwall, how do you personally feel about tourists and second home owners?

[Beerlovingwalker]

Genuinely curious really, as an outsider that loves Cornwall.

On the one hand, it must be nice to know that so many people love the beauty of your county and I'm sure it's nice to share it. However, it also must be difficult to adjust from living fairly quietly in the Autumn/winter months, to suddenly have to share your space with so many million tourists and second home owners in the summer.

I think it is the same in London but hidden due to numbers. All the health professionals I worked with in London moved away except those in inherited, housing association or council homes. So anyone that wanted to buy from scratch needed to move somewhere cheaper. Yet the block I lived in had many empty homes only inhabited for three weeks of the year, the rest of the time empty.

Worshipping house prices needs to stop. Councils need to house people in their communities. People who leave properties empty should be be taxed.

Is Council Tax on second homes still lower than normal? Personally, I think it should be double to compensate for the damage they do.

Which is not to say that Londoners don't have issues with being priced out of the market, but that's a totally different argument.

How? In what way is that a different argument? (Except that the problem of homelessness is more acute in London than anywhere else).

If it's not ok for Cornish locals to be priced out, it's not ok for London locals either. And if it is acceptable and just life for Londoners to be priced out, it's equally fine for Cornish locals too. Perhaps they'll move somewhere with the better infrastructure that priced out Londoners don't use...

Some huge generalisations on here.

I'm not Cornish but I've never once felt unwelcome here. If you're friendly you get accepted quickly ime. I've tried to do the same for others. I'd have to think who amongst my friends is Cornish born and bred - it doesn't make a difference.

We've got great, interesting careers in Cornish businesses. They absolutely do exist.

There aren't any second homes in my immediate area. We aren't picturesque enough. Plenty of us Airbnb our spare rooms though!

Agree places like St Mawes, Fowey etc are dominated by second homes and can feel soulless in places. Some are mansions where I've literally never seen any sign of occupancy.

I generally don't mind tourists - it brings a buzz and some much needed diversity into the area. I like seeing people enjoy the area.

My friend has just bought a property which the owner wanted to sell to a local family. Turned down a big developer offer in their favour. So it does happen.

@the80sweregreat

Go to Greece ! Only place I've ever felt ' welcome' and smiled at as a tourist and in Lincolnshire. Really nice people and friendly. Mostly is the same old thing, we want your money but we don't want you here really ! ( which I can understand and covid has made it worse too)

That's really interesting. I have always felt welcome in Devon and Cornwall but never in Greece (though more so in Athens than on the islands I have stayed on).

I also much prefer the beaches in Devon and Cornwall to Greek ones.

For all those saying they dislike holiday lets cottages....that’s fine, but I do hope you all live by your own standards and never make a point of booking one yourselves and fuelling that market.

I think the issue with second home owners in rural areas is the devastating effect they have on communities. The houses are often rented as holiday homes during tourist season, but lie empty for much of the autumn/winter. Or are used exclusively by their owners for only a few weeks per year. This causes a huge issue for communities- they can become hollowed out and have a huge impact on quality of life for locals- e.g. “ghost villages”.

What happens is that there is not enough demand for services, such as public transport, which leads to them being withdrawn/severely cut back because they aren’t used enough throughout the year. The lack of families living in the villages/rural areas means there isn’t enough demand for local, small schools so these are closed and children have to travel further to school, but this also effects the sense of local community too. Other things like community health services, amenities such as pharmacies etc are moved more centrally. Shops, restaurants/cafe/pubs etc only open part of the year, or close altogether, meaning work is sporadic (which can lead to seasonal workers brought in to cover, for instance, as most local people need a job for more than 3 or 4 months if the year) or goes altogether.

And yes, house price increases as a result of “incomers” having more disposable income meaning local people can’t afford to buy a home. This can lead to further problem- I know one rural area where some services/businesses have been hit by the fact that low/average salaried jobs do not attract enough applicants and if you ask around it is largely due to the fact that these salaries aren’t sufficient to live in the area. I know one school which could not attract teachers in part for this reason.

Second home owners- whether for personal use or to as a holiday let- are a scourge on the communities when in too high a concentration. I’m not saying it should be banned outright, but I do think limits should be placed (agreed locally and could vary from area to area).

@coachmylife

Hang on, those of you who don't mind tourists but hate second home owners - where do you think these tourists ought to stay? If second-homers rent their places out for (say) 30 weeks/year, would that make a difference - is it the emptiness that's the problem, or the fact that there isn't enough housing both for residents and holidaymakers?

None of the second homes surrounding me get let out. They are empty for most of the year.

Relying on tourism and being seen as some quaint Doc Martin style county is what keeps Cornwalls avg incomes very low.

I work for a national data comms company, our directors wouldn't dream of investing in Cornwall "its where you go on holiday" nothing more.

Tourism wrecks places like Cornwall i.e. Wealthy incomers (the nearest to me bought down their Surrey builders) 2nd homes, super high housing, seasonal jobs and a few businesses making a fortune and then don't pay decent wages, due to hi unemployment, due to lack of real jobs......
Cornwall Council charge 100% on 2nd homes, unfurnished is 200% if left empty, despite this, 100s of vulnerable elderly go without any social care.

Whatever the answer is, its not more tourism.

I’d rather a home was let for vast majority of the year. But..schools, libraries, GP surgeries, bus routes need people to need them. Otherwise they won’t survive

@Tealightsandd

Which is not to say that Londoners don't have issues with being priced out of the market, but that's a totally different argument.

How? In what way is that a different argument? (Except that the problem of homelessness is more acute in London than anywhere else).

If it's not ok for Cornish locals to be priced out, it's not ok for London locals either. And if it is acceptable and just life for Londoners to be priced out, it's equally fine for Cornish locals too. Perhaps they'll move somewhere with the better infrastructure that priced out Londoners don't use...

Because, and I am genuinely starting to think you are wilfully misreading what I say here, when a small village or town dies because of second homeowners every single amenity collapses. No schools, no shops, no public transport, no community centres, no library van, no post office, no community events, no local groups, no one to keep an eye out for the most vulnerable. At no point have I said London doesn't have problems with overpriced housing and empty homes. This thread is about the impact on rural communities. If you want to talk about what is happening in London, the housing issues, the fact that people have to commute 40 miles in to do something as essential as nursing or teaching, then start another thread. Because I don't think you quite understand what happens in villages & towns. How long would it take you to get to your nearest shop, school, or bus stop?

I live in a National Park
2nd home owners are the pits of the earth

The shop closed, then the school as no affordable houses but hey they have a house they can visit twice a year and then complain that there is no shop.

when a small village or town dies because of second homeowners every single amenity collapses. No schools, no shops, no public transport, no community centres, no library van, no post office, no community events, no local groups, no one to keep an eye out for the most vulnerable.

This is 100% true.

When an elderly Londoner has spent their life in an area where most housing has been bought up by investors in the last 20--30 years, the negative effects are different. Their kids and grandkids won't be able to live locally, the community will become more transient etc. But it won't become a ghost town. That elderly person will still have a bus/tube/rail service. The GP will still be there. They will probably still have neighbours, even if the community isn't made up of settled families any more.

That's not to say one is ok and the other isn't, but the impact is not the same. They are different situations.

Tourists - no problem, spend away and if I feel it's too overcrowded I will just chill at home in my garden.

Second Homes - I would prefer them to be rented out to locals or at least used as holiday lets for most of the year to generate a local income.

The number of new (overpriced) developments being built in Cornwall is skyrocketing and a lot of these homes will sit empty - I really feel uneasy about this as a lot of the villages I grew up seeing have changed beyond recognition. Cornwall has the highest number of empty homes in the country and is also not an infinite size. If everywhere is being built on it is leaving room to built more affordable housing for the young locals who want to stay here.

I'm from a Cornish village that was completely decimated during the 90s. We had a bakers, hardware shop, butchers, several general stores- they all went. For a long time there was nothing and now they've been replaced by galleries and coffee shops. Nice, but you can't buy a spirit level without driving 10 miles. House prices have tripled. The doctors surgery almost shut last year. The alternative would have been an 8 mile drive to another village that had no public transport connection.

It's a really complex picture, and there are plenty of cornish locals who have made a pretty penny out of selling to second homeowners or from managing holiday lets. In my home village the rental and holiday let market is dominated by about 3 families who also then push up the residential rents for local families (and keep them in awful condition). The council could adopt some radical planning policies and progressive taxation to tackle this and the second home issue, but they won't.

I live in London now. The same forces are at work there- the Asian grocery store closes down to be replaced by a flat white emporium and house prices jump another 20%. Central London property is landbanked by foreign investors who don't live in the houses either.

There is a housing crisis in the UK. it plays out differently in different places but at the end, the rub is working class people being priced out. London is a more popular tourist destination than Cornwall, by the way - the views are of the HOC and the Thames instead of a pretty beach, but they do come and that changes communities too. It is possible to care about both things (and my heart is a bit in both places, although I could never move back due the combo of house prices and poor career options in my area of work).

Hireth is the Cornish word - longing for home, but more complex and deep than that.

Second home owners are problematic for things like this:

Parking like twats because they can afford the parking tickets and don’t care about having to pay them

Claiming they are a business for years, dodging council tax (which is really really high) without actually renting their place out much, or at all.

(This is finally going to be clamped down on with a change to the qualifying rules to require proof of actual paid lettings days)

Illegally using domestic waste collection services whilst falsely registered as a business (see above) or actually being a business (masses of holiday let’s do this)

Claiming the covid 10k grant for businesses, whilst registered falsely as a business, then letting people stay throughout lockdown.

Suing the council for refusing to pay out the grant when they’d registered (falsely) as a business after the grant was announced. The council won that round, thank goodness!

Frequent disruptive building work in absentia, sometimes with massive issues for residents for months on end.

Casually buying another cottage next door for their friends to stay in (this one is from last week in the town where I live)

Sneering at local people. This one is major, and very very common.

Being rude to people in service industries (ditto) because of a sense of entitlement that they are “paying their wages”

Breaking lockdown laws and guidance - major issue

Boasting about being in Cornwall on social media whilst being here, and moving between their multiple properties, during lockdowns.

Pretending they live here, talking as if they live here, but actually just being affluent enough to have really frequent holidays here. Loudly wondering why the local people aren’t up on the headland every day or out sailing.

Illicitly trading moorings amongst themselves via their connections, so that there is now a 24 year waiting list for a mooring. Tough luck on the kids and families who actually live here and want to have a boat. Meanwhile their moorings lie empty most of the season, or are traded amongst the second homers for incredible sums.

Ditto parking spaces.

Being able to pay London prices in posh delis, fancy restaurants, and so on, so that now the London businesses are opening off-shoots here, and local people can’t afford to buy the nice bread or eat out in their own village.

Throwing out into the bins literally entire weeks worth of food because they ordered delivery from Waitrose and then decided to eat out every night in the London restaurant. (Meanwhile the food bank is desperate for donations)

And the London restaurants are bringing their own staff down on rotas rather than training and hiring local staff.

And more talking down to local residents, especially those who have lived here always, assuming we are all thick, ill educated, and poor, and should be grateful for the crumbs from their table.

I’ll stop there....

If some locals are calling the incomers grockels, charging them ‘contributions’ and putting stickers on their cars telling them to get out then they deserve to be sneered at.

Respect is a two way street. I’m certain that although there will be some dicks, the vast majority of incomers don’t act like the Bullingdon Club on tour.

It's always been incredibly expensive to eat out in Cornwall though. My parents hardly ever did it. It used to be lack of competition ('London prices' are in my experience cheaper, but appreciate we may not be talking about the same London), now it may be price inflation. I don't think a new 'foodie' culture is a bad thing, locals enjoy it too and there are plenty of cornish run businesses and it gives some year round economy.

Bude, Falmouth, St Ives are all weird bubbles and you can't generalise from them to the rest of the county. Plenty of fishermen necking flat whites where I'm from.

That elderly person will still have a bus/tube/rail service. The GP will still be there.
No, the GP won't still be there... because they can't afford to live in London. NHS staff leave in droves. And it's all very lovely there being a train or a bus but it's no good for an elderly person with mobility problems, who needs help getting around (which won't be from family if they've been priced out).

Because, and I am genuinely starting to think you are wilfully misreading what I say here, when a small village or town dies because of second homeowners every single amenity collapses. No schools, no shops, no public transport, no community centres, no library van, no post office, no community events, no local groups, no one to keep an eye out for the most vulnerable.
It seems to me it's YOU that is wilfully misreading. How is any of this wonderful infrastructure and facilities any good for priced out Londoners...seeing as they've been priced out?

The point is the issue of being priced out is not unique to Cornwall, and nowhere is it a more accute problems than London. (and it wasn't me that first brought London into this thread. That was done by the Cornish locals).

And there's no one looking out for the vulnerable in London, that's for sure. Many people don't even know the name of their next door neighbour, and families as communities are priced out and away. Then again, in London the vulnerable are left to rot without any home at all on the streets half time. Cornwall is not special.

Very nice derail tea, but presumably the priced out Londoners will set up home somewhere else, and their needs for amenities will be taken into account by the area they do end up living in?

You haven't answered my question by the way.

@sadeyedladyofthelowlandsea

Very nice derail tea, but presumably the priced out Londoners will set up home somewhere else, and their needs for amenities will be taken into account by the area they do end up living in?

You haven't answered my question by the way.

It wasn't me that "derailed" sad (if you mean mentioning London).

presumably the priced out Londoners will set up home somewhere else, and their needs for amenities will be taken into account by the area they do end up living in?
Erm...so if it's ok for Londoners to be priced out and set up home elsewhere with their needs for amenities taken into account, why is it not ok for Cornish people to do the same?

You haven't answered my question
What was it? I'm not just on MN. I'm doing real life at the same time. I can't catch up on every post.

I can't catch up on every post

But you are doing very well to jump on every one of mine - and totally ignoring what other people are saying about rural life & how you can't compare that with London.

when a small village or town dies because of second homeowners every single amenity collapses. No schools, no shops, no public transport, no community centres, no library van, no post office, no community events, no local groups, no one to keep an eye out for the most vulnerable.

Whilst this is terrible for any community, I'd still like to know, as I asked earlier and I don't think anybody responded, whether those living in rural communities eschew the supermarkets and do all (or nearly all) their shopping in the small local shops.

It's a nationwide problem for loads of small villages - including those that are pretty but don't really attract tourists who stay overnight - that NOBODY much uses the local amenities enough to keep them viable, when Tesco etc. are cheaper, open longer hours, more convenient, do deliveries etc. If you do do all/most of your shopping locally, then great; but if you always drive 10 miles to the big town to the massive Asda (or get a delivery from there), you can hardly blame the tourists and second-home-owners for not using the same small shops that you don't use either.

As for things like post offices (and banks), services are withdrawing rapidly throughout the whole country. I live in a central small-to-medium town with very good road connections to nearby bigger towns and cities and almost all of our post boxes have their last (and first) collection at 9:00am, with barely any on Saturdays. Our old PO is now a pub and the replacement is at the back of WH Smith, as in hundreds of towns. I know they have their wholesale business and airports and railway stations, but still, everybody is always amazed that they're still going. What would happen if/when WH Smith did go under?

I could ask the same question re post offices and banks and the like: do rural dwellers all make sure they go out and use them, or do they do as much as they can online, like most of the rest of us? Even things like library vans: now that so many people drive and there is the internet where you can buy cheap books (and read a lot directly online), is it really non-locals to blame for their demise or is it more just changing ways of life for all of us?

I think there are two issues here, being priced out, and second homes. They are related, but the destruction of a local community from second homes adds to the issues of being priced out and makes it far worse.