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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

If you're from Cornwall, how do you personally feel about tourists and second home owners?

658 replies

Beerlovingwalker · 03/05/2021 13:31

Genuinely curious really, as an outsider that loves Cornwall.

On the one hand, it must be nice to know that so many people love the beauty of your county and I'm sure it's nice to share it. However, it also must be difficult to adjust from living fairly quietly in the Autumn/winter months, to suddenly have to share your space with so many million tourists and second home owners in the summer.

OP posts:
SixesAndEights · 03/05/2021 19:13

[quote CharlotteRose90]@Mousetown so people are fine to come for holidays but not stay there full time . That’s fine with me I wouldn’t stay where folk aren’t wanted. Absolutely crazy but hey. Glad I stay in the lakes. Looks like people don’t want anyone to move at all. Saying that though I’m in the north and couldn’t afford Cornwall or Devon too expensive for the same as back here. You do have nicer beaches and weather though. That’s what drawers people in:[/quote]
I live on the outskirts of the Lakes and many of us dislike second home owners here, too. So many villages that used to have a post office and a bus service are now ghost villages because few people actually live in them.

A number of years ago, local occupancy clauses were brought in, especially in towns like Keswick that were being hollowed out by second home owners. There needs to be more of that imo.

A relative of mine has just sold a house in Bowness to someone who will use it as a second home. They don't care. It's in a residential area and there should have been a clause put on the house when it was built imo to stop communities being affected so much by this.

Like Cornwall, the Lake District is another place where there are jobs but few careers. However, it's nowhere near as deprived.

crackofdoom · 03/05/2021 19:15

It does grate a little when you hear people constantly harping on about Cornwall surviving on tourism, as if that’s our only source of income down here. In fact, tourism contributes only 12% of Cornwall’s GDP, and I do wonder whether that makes up for the problems it causes. However, I have no problem whatsoever with individual tourists - everyone deserves a holiday. This last couple of years, though, we’ve definitely had a problem with over tourism- everywhere feeling uncomfortably full, popular spots gridlocked with cars etc. Perhaps if there were no holiday cottages/ second homes and tourists had to rely on hotels, b&bs, holiday parks and campsites, that would keep the numbers down to a comfortable level. Although a lot of problems aren’t caused by tourists themselves but by their cars, which could perhaps be solved by having more park & rides/ shuttle buses to popular spots.

About second homes, pretty much everything has already been said. It’s pointless blaming individuals- we need proper legislation to discourage them.

Tealightsandd · 03/05/2021 19:19

@cjpark

However, many 2nd home owners live in small, expensive accommodation in London and slave their guts out with crap quality of life. Escaping to the holiday home, which is presumably a lot more spacious, with cleaner air etc is what they live for .....and Cornish people who also live in small, expensive rented accommodation and long hours, no doubt on a fraction of a London wage, get what when they retire?!
Some of the people doing that are Cornish. Many many people come to London to work for a period of time, before leaving - back home (including Cornwall) or elsewhere.
BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 03/05/2021 19:20

I live in a national park that is affected by many of the same issues as Cornwall.

Tourists are more than welcome, they contribute to our economy, and the services they use (restaurants, cafes) are things we also benefit from. The presence of tourists is not detrimental to our communities, quite the opposite.

Second home owners are a drain on the community. A high proportion of second homes in a village leads to services being lost (GP, post office etc.), and they don't contribute much, if anything. Frankly, they're not welcome here in the slightest.

OrangeSamphire · 03/05/2021 19:20

People do talk about London. All the time.

The issue of Russian oligarchs and wealthy Chinese investors buying up central London has been all over the press for years.

So don’t pretend London gets ignored when it comes to locals being pushed out.

Tealightsandd · 03/05/2021 19:27

@OrangeSamphire
But there's not the same sympathy for priced out Londoners that there is for Cornish villages. People do shrug and say, well if you can't afford London, just move, whilst there's a major narrative, supported by the media about the tragedy of Cornish locals being priced out. There absolutely are double standards.

There's one difference. The lack of insularity. Despite the extortionate house prices and effect on their local communities (caused in no small part by people from the rest of the UK - including Cornwall moving there and pushing up prices), Londoners don't tend to make tourists or incomers feel unwelcome.

JackieWeaverHandforthCouncil · 03/05/2021 19:30

@Tealightsandd. I’ve been nodding along to all of your posts. It’s like Londoners aren’t real people. We’re just transient workers with strange ways, no families, no roots, ‘citizens of nowhere’ who people can slag off and blame for all of their woes.

I’m London born. There are issues as there would be with any international city but I love it here. I live in an area that’s ‘gentrified’ so much so quickly that unless my kids become bankers, they won’t be able to buy locally. However, instead of being angry at and putting stickers on the car doors of ‘incomers’ I’ve just accepted that they have just as much a right to live here as I do. I don’t own it.

My kids will likely have to move for work and live somewhere else. I have relatives who’ve had to do that. Shame but I have a car or I can jump on a train to see them. I do not believe it’s their right to live in the same street as me or their grandparents. I’ve travelled for work and moved to new areas to live. My DH moved countries for opportunities. They will have to go where the opportunities and affordable housing is.

cakefanatic · 03/05/2021 19:30

@Midge75 thank you. I didn’t know that. There may well be a Cornish word, I don’t know it though. It’s not uncommon to find overlaps between Welsh and Cornish culture, we are all Celts after all! It’s funny, I’m not homesick these days, at least not in the way I was when I first left, that was more an attachment to my parents, but I do feel sometimes like Cornwall is calling out to me.

Winter2020 · 03/05/2021 19:35

I think that second homes that sit empty should be taxed out of existence (or banned in some other form). Locals struggling for somewhere to live, or moving away due to unaffordable housing, while houses sit empty 90% of the year is immoral.

People that want to but a second home in Cornwall (or anywhere) should buy a lodge/static caravan or apartment on a designated holiday site.

It’s not simply the issue that housing is expensive - as it is in many areas. It’s that housing is sitting empty. Housing is a basic need and people shouldn’t be allowed to hoard it and leave it empty.

woodhill · 03/05/2021 19:36

@OrangeSamphire

People do talk about London. All the time.

The issue of Russian oligarchs and wealthy Chinese investors buying up central London has been all over the press for years.

So don’t pretend London gets ignored when it comes to locals being pushed out.

Yes, shame we can't utter the same sentiments to them as the Cornish attitude to Londoners or prohibit them from buying in the UK
RampantIvy · 03/05/2021 19:40

I totally agree with you @Winter2020. And that should apply to second homes anywhere in the country.

Apandemicyousay · 03/05/2021 19:40

@Wilkolampshade

Not just Cornwall where first time buyers can't buy and the young are priced out though is it? On my street in a fairly stabby part of London a one bed flat will set you back well upwards of 450k.
I was going to say the same. Born and bred Londoner, both in professional jobs and living in cramped 2 bed flat, priced out too (probably lots of overseas cash inflating market too).
cjpark · 03/05/2021 19:42

I think the crux of alot of resentment towards second home owner's is the wastage and sadness of seeing up to 80% of the houses in your village locked up and vacant for half the year. The permanent population is not enough to sustain a local shop or school, pub, village hall or bus service. The social ramifications of this are massive.

XingMing · 03/05/2021 19:43

@wooodhill, students have to live somewhere. DS, at uni in Falmouth, has just signed up to rent a 5-bed for next academic year. It is being alterered specifically from family to student requirements, which probably involves converting a living room to a bedroom and lots of toleration over bathrooms. But the landlord thinks five single students are more profitable than a family, and has done the sums. If it works, the landlord will have two very profitable years.

MrsSteveMcDonald · 03/05/2021 19:45

The main difference between Londoners and Cornish being priced out of their areas, is that London gets huge funding for infrastructure and other things. Down here we were classed as one of the poorest regions in the EU before we left.

It's crap being priced out wherever you live but we have nothing else to try and compensate whereas we regularly see London getting lots of investment. Londoners priced out move to cheaper areas, what are those of us who live in these cheaper areas supposed to do when we can't afford these prices?

woodhill · 03/05/2021 19:49

[quote XingMing]@wooodhill, students have to live somewhere. DS, at uni in Falmouth, has just signed up to rent a 5-bed for next academic year. It is being alterered specifically from family to student requirements, which probably involves converting a living room to a bedroom and lots of toleration over bathrooms. But the landlord thinks five single students are more profitable than a family, and has done the sums. If it works, the landlord will have two very profitable years.[/quote]
Indeed - I was recalling my ds's accommodation

80sPadme · 03/05/2021 19:52

The tourists (grockles) are always welcome. I love meeting with and being surrounded by people so I loved growing up in that place.
As an adult however, second home owners have pushed market rents and house prices through the roof and I have had to move away to afford to live.
It's a shame my children won't get to grow up there but it's reality 🥴😕

OverTheRainbow88 · 03/05/2021 19:53

@Winter2020

while houses sit empty 90% of the year is immoral.

I don’t know any one with a second home who leaves in empty 90% of the year. Ok maybe 2020, but no one saw that coming.

We have a second home; we go most weekend, all school holidays and my husbands works there and sleeps there 3 nights a week.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 03/05/2021 20:03

As an accidental second home owner in Northumberland after MIL died (until we managed to sell it) I can categorically say that owning a second home is a PITA. The practicalities of dealing with a leaking roof, keeping heating on low over several lockdowns because we couldn’t visit, various other things that could (and did) go wrong, the expense of council tax, paying standing charges for electricity, annual boiler service, broadband etc make owning a second home far more expensive than staying in a hotel or B and B every now and again.

I completely agree with you - it makes no sense to me to go to all that hassle and expense for maybe a couple of weeks and three or four weekends a year at most. I suppose some people might be thinking long ahead and 'stealth-retiring' - considering the beautiful country home as their 'heart home', but having to live in the city for work and slowly spending more time at the country home, intending to retire there as soon as they can.

HOWEVER, people on here are clearly lumping in the holiday homes that are used as holiday lets, which I don't see is the same thing at all. Of course, the Summer is going to be busier than the rest of the year, but plenty of touristy places also do reasonably well from out-of-season and even Winter lets.

Yes, you get some tourists who will just get a Tesco delivery, but that's a nationwide problem: there are loads of places where people are resident, but they never use the local shops, as the supermarket is believed to be cheaper and more convenient. Are the people on here who live in Cornwall or other tourist hotspots honestly confirming that they only ever use local shops themselves and never or rarely go to the supermarket - or is it somehow different if locals ignore their own shops?

On balance, I'd have thought that people on holiday, with extra spending money, are much more likely to go to the local bakery or butcher than those with their regular weekly/monthly budget and having to fit their shopping in around their working time. Our favourite regular destination is in Norfolk and they effectively had a Tesco forced on them after years of campaigning (Tesco had far more money to fight than the council). We do use Tesco when we're at home, but we never ever go to the one in this town - primarily in solidarity with the locals, but also because, being on holiday, we have the time to go to the amazing local food shops, which run rings around a boring old standard supermarket.

They tolerate 'tourists' in caravan parks because they spend money and don't take our housing, even though it makes the summers over crowded and not much fun.

Why the inverted commas for tourists? It's very sad when you live somewhere beautiful and still resent others who are less lucky in where they're able to live normally wanting to share it - even though they bring money and trade in to the area and don't occupy any sites that would suit locals.

I know it's not quite the same thing, but that attitude reminds me of the sort who keep going on about 'all these immigrants coming in and taking our jobs' - especially when the jobs they do are limited seasonal things like fruit picking, which locals very seldom want to do and which don't provide a realistic full-time income anyway. Some times, people have valid concerns; sometimes, it does just seem to be pointless xenophobia/hatred/distrust of anybody who isn't you.

It does grate a little when you hear people constantly harping on about Cornwall surviving on tourism, as if that’s our only source of income down here. In fact, tourism contributes only 12% of Cornwall’s GDP, and I do wonder whether that makes up for the problems it causes.

How is that calculated, though? Is it purely based on direct income from holidaymaker activities or does it include money spent by tourists on non-touristy things (i.e. local food/everyday shops, cafes, pubs, petrol stations etc.) and the trickle-down money spent by locals whose income comes mainly/wholly from tourists? Genuine question?

Embroideredstars · 03/05/2021 20:04

Lots of places people can't buy a home in villages they grew up in. My home village in the south east being one, my current village in the Midlands being another.

Whilst it's a concentrated problem in Cornwall for many reasons. It isn't just the fault of the second home owners, the original Cornish owners of these properties were happy enough to sell (at an inflated price) to "outsiders" with no thought to the damage they were allowing their home communities to fall into.

It goes both ways, also the lack of careers is due to a lack of investment in the area, which is again due to many reasons. Lack of ease to travel, lack of internet provision, lack of links to larger cities etc. It'll be interesting to see whether these things change since covid and being able to work from home more improves...

cookiemon666 · 03/05/2021 20:06

I live in North Devon, tourists are essential for our economy. Second home owners take the piss, especially during the last year

XingMing · 03/05/2021 20:09

@MrsSteveMcDonald, please look at the Treasury guidelines for how to invest. Everything is predicated on economic growth opportunity, which drives investment. Student DS has a PT job in Falmouth as a chef at a very highly rated restaurant. Six tables and takeaway service takings this weekend topped £6k in three nights. Of course, everyone wants to eat a meal they haven't cooked right now but it will fall back. So DS wants to cash in on the demand so he can take a recreational break until he can move into his next home when he can move in. Mid August. And then he will be working his tail off for 45 hours per week again, until he re-starts uni early October. It's not exactly your gap yah uni experience.

Tealightsandd · 03/05/2021 20:12

@MrsSteveMcDonald

The main difference between Londoners and Cornish being priced out of their areas, is that London gets huge funding for infrastructure and other things. Down here we were classed as one of the poorest regions in the EU before we left.

It's crap being priced out wherever you live but we have nothing else to try and compensate whereas we regularly see London getting lots of investment. Londoners priced out move to cheaper areas, what are those of us who live in these cheaper areas supposed to do when we can't afford these prices?

Erm, the priced out Londoners aren't in London. Having been priced out...

I'm talking renting as well as buying - so, no, they won't have it any easier than someone from Cornwall. Both will be looking for the same cheaper area to move too.

The 'investment' pushes up house prices btw.

The question of where can the priced out can go is probably more pertinent when it comes to Londoners. Where do they go, where there aren't insular locals, who hate them for being Londoners.

Embroideredstars · 03/05/2021 20:13

To a certain extent young people have been priced out the housing market in nice villages for years. I first bought a house 20 years ago and had no hope of buying in my home village at least now there are social housing scheme in most places and there are options.

The Cornish and Londoners are not alone. What about the Cotswolds, the Lakes, Bath, plus numerous places in the North that I'm not so familiar with? These are places my parents generation all bought in in the 70s that their children could never afford in the 2000s and beyond and yet it is our same parents and their peers that were happy to accept the inflated house prices when selling property on.

XingMing · 03/05/2021 20:24

I have lived in Cornwall for most of my 64 years, 31 of them the most recent. I came back here in 1990. The world has changed a lot in those years. The landscape is still spectacular. But we shall retire elsewhere, and buy a plot to build a house we like and want to live in, and it won't be in Cornwall. I like/love Cornwall: I'm just not keen on its gentrification to suburban norms.

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