Has anyone ever challenged a will?

[Coldwine75]

Hi

Don't want to give details but may need to make a claim or contest a will of someone who passed. I have heard its a long process, can be stressful etc, hoping for no win no fee if do proceed.
Just wondering if anyone out there has been through it?
Am i unreasonable to do so, even if the person was estranged from the deceased .

Sorry, England!

Well unless you tell us more, I think you should just have the legendary half hour.

Proving undue influence is incredibly hard. Especially when you come in with "think it was undue influence/coercion, because this isn't fair"

I don’t understand the mentality of thinking entitled to overrule the person who has died and entitled to a slice of the estate they worked hard to amass

Me neither. The sense of entitlement people have to other people’s money never ceases to amaze me.

There's a specific Act to challenge a Will - The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975.

The clue is in the name - is the person not named in the Will a family member and/or dependant on the person who made the Will?

If the deceased had been supporting them in any way they might have a claim - and if they are in dire circumstances such as without home/debt etc they might have a claim.

It used to be that you could get Legal Aid if you challenged a Will using this Act but I think that it no longer qualifies.

If it does qualify still then if you "win" you have to pay costs at "inter partes" rates - which means that you might be getting hours and hours of Solicitor's time at Legal Aid rates but if you win you'll have to pay the full rate which is approx £200 per hour.

I used to work in this Dept and it used to cost about £20-£30K to challenge a Will - if you won the fees then came out of the estate.

So in short - you need to be dependant, and the estate needs to be big enough to cover all the costs.

It's very hard to challenge a Will in this way but we were successful on many occasions.... although usually this was when a couple were co-habiting and not married with children. One of the couple died and no Will meant the house etc went straight to the children so the remaining partner would end up suing their own children to claim back the family home.

You need to give more details to get proper advice - the one work answers aren't really helping.

You’d find it impossible to prove that even a person in sound mind would leave money to someone they were estranged from. You don’t have to be coerced, manipulated or in unsound mind to think ‘Hey I might not leave my money to that person I have nothing to do with’.

YABU. How can you prove coercion if you were estranged?

This very thing is going on with a friend of my mums. She was left a house by her best friend.. who she cared for and saw as a father for over a decade. He even had her down as next of kin. Some distant cousins that had not made any contact with him for about 15 years are now contesting the will. They are acting terrible over it... a load of them booked to be down to attend his funeral (had to book due to Covid), then never actually showed up. Doing that preventing his own friends attending. Total assholes.

If my father died tomorrow (God forbid), I would be left nothing I am guessing. I would grieve for him somewhat as we have had some good times but mainly he doesn't like me and does not feel me as being worthy of his name. I wouldn't cry too many bitter tears. Maybe a few out of shock hearing the news but he has in many ways been very abusive to me. I don't want his miserly acquired millions. He can shove them where the sun don't shine.

There’s no requirement for wills to be fair.

This is so correct, and having been on the other side of a will which family members were threatening to contest (and didn't have a hope of achieving anything) I can tell you it's shit for other beneficiaries. MY DM died 14 months ago and the estate hasn't been distributed yet.

If someone is close to the deceased, I could imagine feeling very hurt if not included in a will. If someone is estranged, I wouldn't expect to be included or indeed to include them.

Yes, I'm sure that it might feel like you could have had some inheritance but it was never going to happen if you don't get on with someone. Why would they include you? Unless you were a child of mine, there is no way that I would include someone who I didn't get on with.

I much prefer the English freedom of testamentary capacity approach than the Scottish / French situation of the state dictating that you must leave a portion of your estate to certain relatives. Some people have very good reasons for leaving their children out of wills. You are not “owed” an inheritance unless they were supporting you or you were married. Then you should get what you would have on a divorce.

Adult children or extended family should have no claim at all.

Years ago within the family yes.
By the end of it, it took years, there was very little left due to solicitor fees, and the expenses incurred.
Solicitors in the end took their fees with interest which wiped out the bulk of the estate.
Looking back. Ridiculous waste of time, effort and caused untold stress and upset to multiple people who were already devastated and grieving.

My uncle tried to do it, but stopped once he realised how much it would cost him!

He hadnt spoke to my nan in over 20 years, he had taken her to court and my nan was forced to sell her house to pay him off, even on her death bed, she never wanted to see him!

She did leave him something in her will, she had the first letter she received from his solicitor put in a frame!

If all of you who are included in the will don't think it's fair, just give that person a cut of your amounts. That's what we did for my aunt when she was written out of her step mothers / my Nans will.

If all the beneficiaries agree, I think the Will can be changed.
We did this when my mother died. She had changed something out of vindictiveness. However, I and my son [her grandson] changed it back to what it was previously, with the help of a solicitor.

Being estranged from the deceased but expecting their money is not a good look. Life isn't fair, but this doesn't sound like a case of unfairness. If you were their carer or had a close, loving relationship then yes it would be 'unfair'.

My father died aged 37, leaving mum and 4 children. It was medical negligence so there was a payout that enabled mum to buy a house for us all. 14 years later she married an arsehole who brought nothing to the marriage - he moved from his mother's house to our mother's house. He pays no bills, just gambles and drinks his money away. Sadly he's 11 years younger than mum so will probably outlive her, and inherit the house. He'll probably leave it to his younger sister - the house bought with compensation for the death of our father. As I said, life isn't fair.

@MsTSwift

I much prefer the English freedom of testamentary capacity approach than the Scottish / French situation of the state dictating that you must leave a portion of your estate to certain relatives. Some people have very good reasons for leaving their children out of wills. You are not “owed” an inheritance unless they were supporting you or you were married. Then you should get what you would have on a divorce.

Adult children or extended family should have no claim at all.

I don't know how them, but where my family is you still can leave out a child but only if the reason is one allowed by law (really bad character, long prison sentence, i think drug addiction...). I do assume French etc have it the same.

It's not really about being owed inheritance. I genuinely think it's to not have the bother of sorting wills and case law since it's not common law jurisdiction.
Afaik we can actually have a will but child should still get 3/4 of what the law says is their part.

I have to say, I prefer that one for it's relative simplicity to 3trillion cases strong case law which needs to be dealt with here👀

@Fatladyslim

If all of you who are included in the will don't think it's fair, just give that person a cut of your amounts. That's what we did for my aunt when she was written out of her step mothers / my Nans will.

Yes, that's true, it's easy to do that. One or some, or all, of the beneficiaries can lodge a deed of variation in order to change the outcome of the will.

It's better to do it that way rather than simply to give the other person some money as, if given through a deed of variation, the gift counts as a legacy from the original testator and not as a gift from the original beneficiary, thus avoiding the 7-year tapering rule for inheritance tax.

@Coldwine75

Just that it isnt fair?

I'm sure the deceased doesn't care that it's fair or not. Maybe it's that attitude that made them change their will?

In theory the law lets you challenge, in practice you can’t win. It’s impossible to prove the legal tests eg undue influence/dementia, even if the person making the will was bedbound with senility and can’t remember their own name, let alone who their children are.

Virtually all will challenges fail.

Oh, and the law is specifically written to allow unfairness, dishonesty, cruelty, etc. The law gives total freedom to the will maker to do exactly what they want that afternoon.

As the famous lawyer Anthony Julius said ‘Great idea. The trouble is, so many do.’

The problem with a share automatically to children is second marriages. Where does the surviving spouse live?

It’s perfectly possible to provide for surviving spouse during their lifetime but that children from the first marriage inherit on the second death.

There is a difference between coerced and advised and even influenced. Influenced is allowed, coerced is forced against your will, ie. blackmailed, threatened etc...

It being unfair to you is irrelevant.

The sound of mind aspect is the only realistic mean to it being potentially void. Do you think this is highly likely because you have evidence supporting this view or is just a feeling because you don’t believe they would have willingly left you out?

@MsTSwift

The problem with a share automatically to children is second marriages. Where does the surviving spouse live?

It’s perfectly possible to provide for surviving spouse during their lifetime but that children from the first marriage inherit on the second death.

They get a share, at least in mine. The spouse and the children. Or the spouse and the parents etc.

We gave up our shares to mum.

I once met someone who did, for what you might think entirely justifiable reasons.
A parent with fairly early dementia had a live-in carer who quickly turned him against his formerly very close family, prevented him from seeing them, subsequently took him abroad and married him, and evidently got him to make a new will entirely in her favour. And it was a substantial estate.
The family still lost.

I have a feeling the dementia had not been officially diagnosed, but maybe that would not have made much difference anyway, since I was told that in court the woman was very clever and plausible.